Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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Michael.N.
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by Michael.N. » Tue May 23, 2017 6:50 am

It may even be slower. If you wish to sand the bottom of the saddle then the only difficulty is holding it. Hardly difficult to make a holder out of a bit of wood.
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Jim Frieson
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by Jim Frieson » Tue May 23, 2017 8:20 am

Anyone can put a saddle or nut in a vice or put in a wooden jig and rub it on some abrasive . Measure , sand a bit more , measure again . That is fine for the amateur . But for the pro who is doing this all day long this tool allows for measuring and indexing the amount to be removed , from either or both ends , in fine gradients . Someone with 20 guitars to do will definitely save time .

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by rojarosguitar » Tue May 23, 2017 7:20 pm

There is one similar tool in the electronic bay that costs 14 Euro incl. shipping. Looks of course much less sturdy, could be useful for occasional work, though. Just look for Saddle and Nut Sander there...
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LBrandt
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by LBrandt » Sat May 27, 2017 5:07 pm

Well, I just bit the bullet and bought the device. Yes, it's expensive, but I'm trying to lower the action on my most expensive guitar, and I wanted to do it right. I just did a test of the device, using a blank bone saddle, and it works perfectly. I doubt that I could have done it this well using anything else. I'm sure that most of you could do the job perfectly using other methods, but I'm not that good. Now I'm ready to do it on the actual saddle.

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bacsidoan
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by bacsidoan » Sat May 27, 2017 5:54 pm

LBrandt wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 5:07 pm
Well, I just bit the bullet and bought the device. Yes, it's expensive, but I'm trying to lower the action on my most expensive guitar, and I wanted to do it right. I just did a test of the device, using a blank bone saddle, and it works perfectly. I doubt that I could have done it this well using anything else. I'm sure that most of you could do the job perfectly using other methods, but I'm not that good. Now I'm ready to do it on the actual saddle.
I'm you there , brother. It's nice to know that the base of the saddle will be perfectly perpendicular, isn't it? Well, except when the saddle is designed to be on a forward slant :(

LBrandt
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by LBrandt » Sat May 27, 2017 6:20 pm

bacsidoan wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 5:54 pm
LBrandt wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 5:07 pm
Well, I just bit the bullet and bought the device. Yes, it's expensive, but I'm trying to lower the action on my most expensive guitar, and I wanted to do it right. I just did a test of the device, using a blank bone saddle, and it works perfectly. I doubt that I could have done it this well using anything else. I'm sure that most of you could do the job perfectly using other methods, but I'm not that good. Now I'm ready to do it on the actual saddle.
I'm you there , brother. It's nice to know that the base of the saddle will be perfectly perpendicular, isn't it? Well, except when the saddle is designed to be on a forward slant :(
Well, if that's the case, I don't know of any way to remove material from the bottom of the saddle, and make sure that you wind up with the same slant. Most comments seem to suggest that there are several ways to insure a perpendicular bottom, but I've never read anyone's post that indicates that they know how to remove material from the bottom on a slant.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by rojarosguitar » Sat May 27, 2017 7:09 pm

In all guitars that had a slanted saddle bone that I saw or had the grove was so that the bottom was perpendicular to the walls, so that the bone needed to have a perpendicular bottom as much as on a straight saddle.
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LBrandt
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by LBrandt » Sat May 27, 2017 7:18 pm

rojarosguitar wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 7:09 pm
In all guitars that had a slanted saddle bone that I saw or had the grove was so that the bottom was perpendicular to the walls, so that the bone needed to have a perpendicular bottom as much as on a straight saddle.
Yes, that is my assumption also. The saddle may be sitting at a slant, but the bottom of the slot, and the bottom of the saddle is still perpendicular.

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bacsidoan
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by bacsidoan » Sat May 27, 2017 7:41 pm

LBrandt wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 7:18 pm
rojarosguitar wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 7:09 pm
In all guitars that had a slanted saddle bone that I saw or had the grove was so that the bottom was perpendicular to the walls, so that the bone needed to have a perpendicular bottom as much as on a straight saddle.
Yes, that is my assumption also. The saddle may be sitting at a slant, but the bottom of the slot, and the bottom of the saddle is still perpendicular.
I agree. If the slot is cut by a router than the bottom should be perpendicular regardless whether it is on a slant with the bridge or the soundboard. However, I have seen a few guitars where the bottom of the slot is not perfectly perpendicular, for whatever reason.

LBrandt
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by LBrandt » Sat May 27, 2017 8:13 pm

bacsidoan wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 7:41 pm
LBrandt wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 7:18 pm
rojarosguitar wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 7:09 pm
In all guitars that had a slanted saddle bone that I saw or had the grove was so that the bottom was perpendicular to the walls, so that the bone needed to have a perpendicular bottom as much as on a straight saddle.
Yes, that is my assumption also. The saddle may be sitting at a slant, but the bottom of the slot, and the bottom of the saddle is still perpendicular.
I agree. If the slot is cut by a router than the bottom should be perpendicular regardless whether it is on a slant with the bridge or the soundboard. However, I have seen a few guitars where the bottom of the slot is not perfectly perpendicular, for whatever reason.
Yes, that would be true, but hopefully it doesn't happen very often.

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bacsidoan
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by bacsidoan » Sat May 27, 2017 10:24 pm

Good luck with the operation. Wait, you do not need luck, it will be successful :)

LBrandt
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by LBrandt » Sat May 27, 2017 11:24 pm

bacsidoan wrote:
Sat May 27, 2017 10:24 pm
Good luck with the operation. Wait, you do not need luck, it will be successful :)
Thanks.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by rojarosguitar » Mon May 29, 2017 8:40 am

I have ordered the other, cheaper one and I'll report about how that works when I have used it...
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Andrew Pohlman
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Tue May 30, 2017 6:39 pm

LBrandt wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 2:56 pm
My only question would be, how do you make sure that the bottom of the saddle extends the same amount, all the way across the bottom of the device?
Layout is the answer. The way I do it is to lay out the nut/saddle by drawing guidelines. With that device, you could draw lines and install accordingly, or use a micrometer. In our modern times, you can't really adjust height by sanding the top of the nut/saddle. Flat fretboards are going away. Lots of classical guitars have radiused fretboards now, and intonation requires individualized treatment for each string. Hence, I'm a bottom sander. :D

We reviewed this tool before and the price tag is stupidly exorbitant. I'd buy it if it was US$50. But pushing US$200? No way.

What everyone else said is true: use a simple vise, hand sanding removes skin, super easy to do by hand if you don't mind the skin issue, etc. On a personal note, I have bad arthritis in my left hand - for that reason, a little machine could be very helpful for me.

For US$20 I bought LMI's "sliding vise" intended for their Luthier's Friend. I'm going to see if I can affix some roller bearings and make it into a poor-man's version of the StewMac Cadillac model. :D
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mordent
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Re: Have any of you used this to lower the action?

Post by mordent » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:08 pm

Chris.Conery wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 4:03 pm
It looks like a nice tool for thicknessing the saddle, but for lowering action it seems excessive. It's so easy to do freehand and it is unnecessary, even (some say) undesirable, to have a square bottom to the saddle.
I don't understand this point since I have always considered it essential for the bottom of the saddle to be square and absolutely flat such that the maximum area of string vibration is presented to the underlying top. This being so have always checked my saddle bottom on any adjustment by using the back of a broken section of an old mirror as a cheap precision engineers surface plate . However if Chris is referring to a backward slope to the saddle bottom then that indeed may be desirable since this does apparently reduce string stress to some extent particularly if using extra high tension strings .I have never done this since I prefer normal tension strings.
Sanding down a new saddle particularly in reducing the thickness is very hazardess to the "playing fingernails unless you are ambidextrous since there is little gripping area . Best to use as has been said a miniature cheap hand vice clamped at the scribed mark.
Chopin used to sleep with wooden wedges between his fingers to increase their span--now there's a thought !

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