How to add Veneer to Already Bent Bindings

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Joe Medina
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How to add Veneer to Already Bent Bindings

Post by Joe Medina » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:31 am

Hello ladies and gentleman. I need to add veneer strips to already bent bindings. Can any please let me know what is the best way to go about doing this? Thank you.

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James Lister
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Re: How to add Veneer to Already Bent Bindings

Post by James Lister » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:49 am

You can just glue the bindings to a large sheet of veneer, and then cut round the binding with a sharp scalpel, but it wastes a lot of veneer. Unless the veneers are black or very dark, you will also see some colour variation around the purflings as they change from long grain to short grain. Unless the bindings are exotic/expensive, I'd probably recommend just starting again.

James
James Lister, luthier, Sheffield UK

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Steve Ganz
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Re: How to add Veneer to Already Bent Bindings

Post by Steve Ganz » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:08 am

I'll preface my response. I've been in that predicament.
If I were in this situation I'd probably make a new set of bindings gluing the lines on before bending. (You unbend the bindings by putting them in a bath and ironing them, but there are some risks.)
I know one luthier (John Greven, if memory serves) who installed lines after installing the bindings. If you have a gramil, you can easily make a slit or two for some veneer. You do have a gramil, don't you? :)
I believe Greven said he used a dremel tool with high speed cutter 3/8" bit. (It's like a mini saw blade on the end of the shaft.) The slid and veneer thickness would have to match.

Other methods occur to me, but they are more wasteful and less satisfying than redoing the bindings.

Good luck, have fun!
(Edit - I was responding at the same time as James. We were thinking along the same "lines" . Pun intended.)
Steve

Joe Medina
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Re: How to add Veneer to Already Bent Bindings

Post by Joe Medina » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:33 pm

James Lister wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:49 am
You can just glue the bindings to a large sheet of veneer, and then cut round the binding with a sharp scalpel, but it wastes a lot of veneer. Unless the veneers are black or very dark, you will also see some colour variation around the purflings as they change from long grain to short grain. Unless the bindings are exotic/expensive, I'd probably recommend just starting again.

James
Thank you James. I like your idea, and agree it's a bit wasteful. But man, I just don't feel like straightening out the bindings and rebending them. Would it work if I tried to bend the veneer strip individually around the binding and glue as I go?

Joe Medina
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Re: How to add Veneer to Already Bent Bindings

Post by Joe Medina » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:38 pm

Steve Ganz wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:08 am
I'll preface my response. I've been in that predicament.
If I were in this situation I'd probably make a new set of bindings gluing the lines on before bending. (You unbend the bindings by putting them in a bath and ironing them, but there are some risks.)
I know one luthier (John Greven, if memory serves) who installed lines after installing the bindings. If you have a gramil, you can easily make a slit or two for some veneer. You do have a gramil, don't you? :)
I believe Greven said he used a dremel tool with high speed cutter 3/8" bit. (It's like a mini saw blade on the end of the shaft.) The slid and veneer thickness would have to match.

Other methods occur to me, but they are more wasteful and less satisfying than redoing the bindings.

Good luck, have fun!
(Edit - I was responding at the same time as James. We were thinking along the same "lines" . Pun intended.)
Hello Steve and thank you. In my case the bindings aren't installed yet, and I want to attach the extra veneers to the bindings before I glue the bindings on. What happened was that I routed the channel to low, and the top of the bindings are lower than the back of the guitar and purflings. Im trying to raise the bindings by adding veneers. Do you have any ideas on a good solution?

Paul Micheletti
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Re: How to add Veneer to Already Bent Bindings

Post by Paul Micheletti » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:23 pm

Hi Joe,

The trouble with bending veneer on edge is that it wants to fall over. You might have a bit of luck if you can bundle a bunch of veneer slices together so that the stack of veneer is taller than the width. Then you can width-wise bend the veneer into the shape of the binding without them falling over. I would make them a bit wider than the binding edge just because you will never exactly match the binding shape and need to fuss the edges a bit.

Green low-stick masking tape is what I use when I'm heat bending to hold things together temporarily. It seems to stick to wood with some moisture present as long as it is initally applied to dry wood. And it holds up to the heat and does not come unstuck as easily as other masking tape.

I've not tried bending veneer stand-alone myself. Just thinking of ideas.

Edited: An even better idea would be to sandwich the veneers you want between some junk wood the same thickness as the width of the veneers. Poplar bends nicely and is super cheap. Use the green masking tape to tightly tape up the sandwich of poplar -> veneers -> poplar and then bend that as a single unit. Then take it apart and use the pre-bent veneers for purflings.
Last edited by Paul Micheletti on Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dave M
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Re: How to add Veneer to Already Bent Bindings

Post by Dave M » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:15 pm

Add some purfling?
Dave

Joe Medina
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Re: How to add Veneer to Already Bent Bindings

Post by Joe Medina » Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:25 am

Paul Micheletti wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:23 pm
Hi Joe,

The trouble with bending veneer on edge is that it wants to fall over. You might have a bit of luck if you can bundle a bunch of veneer slices together so that the stack of veneer is taller than the width. Then you can width-wise bend the veneer into the shape of the binding without them falling over. I would make them a bit wider than the binding edge just because you will never exactly match the binding shape and need to fuss the edges a bit.

Green low-stick masking tape is what I use when I'm heat bending to hold things together temporarily. It seems to stick to wood with some moisture present as long as it is initally applied to dry wood. And it holds up to the heat and does not come unstuck as easily as other masking tape.

I've not tried bending veneer stand-alone myself. Just thinking of ideas.

Edited: An even better idea would be to sandwich the veneers you want between some junk wood the same thickness as the width of the veneers. Poplar bends nicely and is super cheap. Use the green masking tape to tightly tape up the sandwich of poplar -> veneers -> poplar and then bend that as a single unit. Then take it apart and use the pre-bent veneers for purflings.
I think that is I will attempt. Glue up a stack taller than wider and bend that. Thanks for the advice.

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Re: How to add Veneer to Already Bent Bindings

Post by jim watts » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:17 am

Joe, If your using a side bending machine you can bend a grouping of side purflings that have be taped together into what's the equivalent of a wider piece of wood.
In the past I have bent 4 pieces of purfing taped together in my side bender,typically a w/b/w combination. You can then install the purflings into the binding channel by themselves followed by the binding.

Joe Medina
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Re: How to add Veneer to Already Bent Bindings

Post by Joe Medina » Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:03 am

I like it. Thanks Jim

Michael Propsom
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Re: How to add Veneer to Already Bent Bindings

Post by Michael Propsom » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:47 pm

( DISREGARD: I see that Paul already described this in his edited post) I've employed the method that Jim Watts described several times. In fact, I did so again just this Wednesday. What I do is tape the four straight purfling pieces together tightly together between a couple of "binding" pieces (usually some waste maple that's lying around my shop) to give the purfs extra support. You want to make sure to tape them especially tightly in the waist area, as that's where the purflings want to twist or wrinkle.

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