Repair of guitar - what needs done?

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
amezcua
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: Repair of guitar - what needs done?

Post by amezcua » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:13 am

Do you think the strings are too deep in the nut grooves. What I mean is , the nut thickness should be reduced till half the string thickness sits above the nut. If the groove has been filed with a sharp V cut (bad ) it might be jamming the string. If there was a black pencil graphite mark under the strings (for lubrication ) that would be a good thing but the guitar is too clean and pretty for anything messy like graphite . Do the strings run over the nut in a smooth curve or is there one point where the string angle suddenly changes?
The way the strings are tied at the bridge looks as if the loops could be closed in a bit in case the string has a way of flexing .
If the guitar is not played regularly you may be working at it before the tuning has settled down .
In the full length photo the bridge bone (when you magnify it ) looks too high on the treble side. Has it been inserted back to front? On top of that look at the shadows of the strings on the fretboard to see what clearance there is above the frets. The treble sides look higher than the bass side . So generally going by how deep the strings are sitting in the nut the fine details of this guitar have been overlooked . One good indicator is telling us a lot just by that nut .
If you ever have a nut groove filed with a sharp V sometimes you will notice the sharp edge shaving bits of the nylon strings as they are tuned up . Obviously that will lead to some odd intonation .Get some feeler gauges and a magnifier on your next visit . Check what clearances you should have before you go .

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chrispeppler
Amateur luthier
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Location: Lonehill, Gauteng, RSA

Re: Repair of guitar - what needs done?

Post by chrispeppler » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:48 am

Search on 'SCALE LENGTH & INTONATION FOR BEGINNERS by Chris Herrod' for a good article on this topic. 'Fretted Instrument Bridge Saddle Compensation Calculator' is a more detailed and technical explanation complete with a handy calculator.

amezcua
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: Repair of guitar - what needs done?

Post by amezcua » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:20 pm

I have been replacing my frets to get a historical temperament and I tune each note individually before letting the glue set. It seems accurate when I am checking the note with an orchestral tuner but when playing , the note reacts differently depending on finger pressure. Mostly they tend to go sharper on the nylon strings.
How do you hpld this guitar when you test the intonation ? Are you in the same position as you normally hold it ? Unlike a piano where a harder/faster press simply gets you a louder note , a guitar slightly changes the frequency . Do you play near the frets or in between ?
I still suspect the nut with deep grooves. How would you get the deep grooves to look so neat ? A rounded file to copy the string diameter would require some extra attention and the maker would know about cutting the groove properly . Have a close look to see if the deepest grooves have wider gaps at the top . That would indicate a V shaped file doing the cut. Bad news for the strings .
We all hope for an ideal playing solution and a manufacturer looks for an ideal cheaper solution . How about makers all listing their short cuts for us and it would save us scratching our heads when they know full well it will not be the best way to make a guitar . (eg) Plastic hollow nuts (eg) massively thick varnish as long as it`s very shiny .It sounds a good theme for a guitar magazine to delve into .A naming and shaming exercise . But adverisers push it all the other way and tell whoppers to get the numbers up . How about an agreed basic standard . If anything is made below that standard . Unless they tell us ,it will be a recall job. Just like the expensive cars with dodgy airbags .
But ,assuming you like Equal Temperament ,when do you decide when a note is out of tune? I notice single separated notes as out of tune but mostly on a guitar forum the complaints are about chords sounding wrong. (Not to ruffle any feathers there ).

Peskyendeavour
Posts: 122
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Re: Repair of guitar - what needs done?

Post by Peskyendeavour » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:26 pm

:merci:

I will certainly look up that article, change to reliable set of strings, and check nut, bridge bone, scale length, fret height, map frets when next there.

So much to learn ...but so interesting!!! :D :D

Thanks for your kind advice luthiers! I'll sure report back next I visit her and her guitar!

Keith
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Location: Land of Daniel Boone

Re: Repair of guitar - what needs done?

Post by Keith » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:04 am

i think we should keep things in perspective. the admira 630 is a 630mm scale length $235 guitar (current listing is 179 sterling pounds). I doubt if any major surgical intervention will help. put on new strings and check the nut and saddle (likely plastic) for anything really bizzaro. if that does not cure the problem then it is unlikely anything will cure this guitar. if the tuning is so bad after putting on good strings and eliminating anything really bizarro then you could use the guitar as a planter or anti-burglar tool if it is that annoying.
be true to the one you love but have many flings with different guitars

guitarras en la espiritu de la:
Marcelo Barbero
Jose Ramirez III

Peskyendeavour
Posts: 122
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Re: Repair of guitar - what needs done?

Post by Peskyendeavour » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:31 pm

:lol: planter or anti burglar tool :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :roll: :lol:

amezcua
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: Repair of guitar - what needs done?

Post by amezcua » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:36 am

Is there a situation where two separate things can add up to a fault ? From the photos the guitar looks well made .Admira is a well known name so I hope they don`t suffer financially from a mysterious tuning problem . Is the player or /are the players playing in a key where they are not hitting the right notes? That is down to music theory . How good is the violinist ? Maybe we have been looking in the wrong place . Will any guilty parties come clean and make a true confession if the guitar is totally innocent. That "Totally Innocent" phrase is from a Laurel and Hardy film where Oliver points to the sky to give the words emphasis . I am beginning to like this guitar .It certainly looks nice.We can try to understand it but the guitar itself must want to change . That`s the psychological approach .

amezcua
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: Repair of guitar - what needs done?

Post by amezcua » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:30 pm

Reading the original post I would partly blame the string clearances on the treble side and then question where the nut is placed. I have a small Mexican guitar and the tuning was off just like this guitar . I slid a 2mm brass rod under all the strings touching the nut .Suddenly all the frets were in tune. A 2mm rod under the strings would only alter the length by 1mm so try to test for that . ( The circular brass section will only shift the string length by half the diameter .)

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