Need advice for new tuners choice

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
sal
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Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by sal » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:18 pm

I have a early 70s Aria AC-30 guitar that I recently aquired. I really like the guitar, dont think it was played for more than 45 minutes over 40 years. The tuners are slipping, and I want to get another set. I havent explored tuners yet, I can only imagine how expensive they can be. I want to get something that works well, will fit on the aria, but I dont wanna go crazy. Can I get a good set of tuners for $100 or less, and if so what brand/model? Thanks you for any input and advice.

SteveL123
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by SteveL123 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:22 pm

Tuners don't slip, probably the strings are incorrectly installed. Try a new set of strings but read up on correct way to install them.

I just bought a 1977 Takemine C132S, pristine cosmetically but the tuners were really stiff and creaks when I turn them. I R&R the tuners, waxed the rollers (where they contact the wood), used a tooth pick to put a tiny drop of olive oil on all moving surfaces and the tuners are now buttery smooth. You may want to give it a try before buying new tuners. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

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petermc61
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by petermc61 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:09 am

Tuners most certainly can slip when they are old, particularly cheap ones.

Look at the Rubner and Gotoh basic models.

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guitarseller345645
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by guitarseller345645 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:50 am

Good reasonable tuners are Schaller/Gotoh - though I prefer Der Jung.
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SteveL123
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by SteveL123 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:47 am

petermc61 wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:09 am
Tuners most certainly can slip when they are old, particularly cheap ones.

Look at the Rubner and Gotoh basic models.
I am sorry but that is incorrect. Worn tuning machines will have slop, but cannot slip. With its design of worm (where the knob is mounted to) and pinion gear (where the capstan is mounted to), turning the knob turns the pinion. Turning the pinion will not turn the knob, therefore, it cannot slip. Do you have a pair of old tuning machines? Take a pair of pliers and try turning the capstan. You will not be able to.

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rinneby
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by rinneby » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:05 am

Check out Der-Jung tuners, they are great for the price. But more importantly check the spacing between the rollers, 35" is the norm today, but 39" was common in the 60s and 70s, especially on Japanese guitars.

/Jon
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petermc61
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by petermc61 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:19 am

SteveL123 wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:47 am
petermc61 wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:09 am
Tuners most certainly can slip when they are old, particularly cheap ones.

Look at the Rubner and Gotoh basic models.
I am sorry but that is incorrect. Worn tuning machines will have slop, but cannot slip. With its design of worm (where the knob is mounted to) and pinion gear (where the capstan is mounted to), turning the knob turns the pinion. Turning the pinion will not turn the knob, therefore, it cannot slip. Do you have a pair of old tuning machines? Take a pair of pliers and try turning the capstan. You will not be able to.
It's only incorrect the way you define slip Steve.

If I turn the knob and the mechanism does not turn the tuner because the worm/cog don't properly engage (say due to wear or misalignment) then I call that slip. I suspect many people would think similarily.

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Peter

DerekB
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by DerekB » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:26 am

Paco Castillo do some really good cheapish tuners. I have a set on my Yulong Guo to replace the originals which slipped.
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simonm
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by simonm » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:10 am

Almost any set of tuners from a couple of bucks up will work just fine. However, the bottom of the barrel ones (under $10) feel cheap and nasty and probably won't last all that long. You will have plenty of choice of quite decent tuners for $100. All the tuners mentioned so far will be fine.

There are two things to check. What is the spacing between the rollers on your guitar? Most tuners will have 35mm centers. Other sizes are available but 35 is the most common today, so if it is different it will mean a bit more shopping round to locate tuners. Check that the diameter of the rollers is OK too. There is also some variation there.

If everything is identical it makes a drop in replacement easier. The screw holes will likely be in different positions but it doesn't matter much.

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Jacek A. Rochacki
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by Jacek A. Rochacki » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:59 am

Here is another vote for Der Jung tuners, they are indeed great for the price, I have very good experience with their frictionless model.
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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:05 am

Everything above seems to have missed that the guitar has apparently been hardly played. While there may conceivably be a problem with them for some reason, surely the most likely issue is that the perception of slipping is little more than the completely normal stretching of the nylon string we all deal with everyday. Until that is ruled out, spending anything on new tuners seems to be very premature. There must be somebody local to the OP who is in a position to advise?
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sal
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by sal » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:02 pm

Thanks for all the replies. I am using the word "slipping " in the following manner; I turn the tuner and it is slow to change pitch. When it finally changes, it's often to much. I alternate between loosening and tightening until it's in tune. My other guitar is mucher quicker to respond to turning, can change in tiny increments, and much less back and forth.i suppose it is possible that I tied the strings poorly,but the way I tie works fine on other guitar-strings have bee on for a month

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Michael.N.
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by Michael.N. » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:11 pm

That's 'play' or 'slop' in the gearing. Slipping is when the string suddenly looses tension.
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sal
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by sal » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:17 pm

"play" or "slop" thank you Michael.
I am still trying to get accustomed to guitar vernacular and terminology. I am ALMOST at the point where I refer to what I know as "slurs", as hammer ons and pull ofs. :roll:

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georgemarousi
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Re: Need advice for new tuners choice

Post by georgemarousi » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:19 pm

sal wrote:
Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:02 pm
..
I turn the tuner and it is slow to change pitch. When it finally changes, it's often to much. I alternate between loosening and tightening until it's in tune.
...
hello all,

I have exactly this issue on some of the tuners of a guitar of mine, especially when I want to de-tune some strings. I noticed closer that what actually happens, is that some tunners don't follow my truns exactly, but have some delay in finally tunring the gear. Something fails within the axis of the tuner.

Can anyone advice me, is this something fixable ( i.e. can I tighten something? ) or I must look for new tuners? thanks ! :)
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student again since 2015, to my degree @..? - God bless!

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