A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
vincentx
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:41 am

A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by vincentx » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:34 pm

I made two cypress guitars recently for two local guitarists. One based on 1936 Santos Hernandez in my own collection and another one based on 1939 Santos Hernandez owned by a friend of mine.
IMG_4609.JPG
These two are the very first two cypress guitars I ever built. I was extremely happy with the result. One successfully delivered to its owner, and the other one comes to a premature end.
IMG_4826.JPG
The case had been wrapped within a box with lots of padding and wrapping bubbles. One can clearly see how the guitar being treated during the shipment, violently thrown on the ground, cracked side around end block and then the top. This is the very first time for me to experience this kind of tragedy. It is way much more painful than I thought. I just hope it would not happen again for me and all the other makers ever.
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1911 Jose Ramirez I SP/BR
1918 Enrique Garcia SP/BR No.195
1923 Hermann Hauser I Vienna SP/MP
1933 Enrique Coll Sinopoil SP/BR
1936 Santos Hernandez SP/BR
2002 Daniel Friederich CD/IN
2017 Marshall Brune SP/BR 1888 Torres Bench Copy

simonm
Amateur luthier
Posts: 6214
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:22 am
Location: Germany, Kronberg (near Frankfurt).

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by simonm » Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:56 pm

Yuk. Very sorry to hear it. :-(

However, based on the one picture, it looks like it should be repairable. Certainly with some advice from your excellent connections it should even be possible to make the repair very discreet.

Simon

wchymeus
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:49 am

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by wchymeus » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:02 pm

Very sad story and certainly a lot of frustrations after putting many hours of love in a beautiful instrument.

I can't explain the big scratch on the side near the seam if the guitar stayed in its case though...
Field 2014, Oberg 2013, Vincente Sachis Badia 1977

soltirefa
Posts: 1318
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:59 am
Location: Southern California

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by soltirefa » Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:27 pm

What a shame. Sorry you're going though that. It makes me think that you need to wrap the guitar like the Mars Rover landing thing so no amount of collision will harm it.

Image

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Andy Culpepper
Luthier
Posts: 192
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:57 pm
Location: Ithaca, NY USA

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by Andy Culpepper » Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:12 pm

Heartbreaking, so sorry to see that. I'm very interested in how the insurance claim goes, if you purchased insurance.

It's strange looking at the picture, I can't see the top lining/tentellones at all, is it very thin? One recommendation I would make is when cutting the binding and purfling channels, to cut a "staircase" so that the full lining is preserved and the purfling channels aren't routed all the way through the top.
I'm also trying to figure out how it's possible for the binding/purfling on the treble side to stay attached to the endgrain of the top, but pull completely away from the top lining. Do you have a photo of the inside of the guitar before closing the box?

Laudiesdad69
Posts: 988
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:16 pm

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by Laudiesdad69 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:22 am

Hope it was insured. The seller isn't responsible for what happens during shipping. Hope the customer gets his money back and can get it replaced.

Who was the carrier on this?

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petermc61
Posts: 5859
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:11 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by petermc61 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:39 am

Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:22 am
Hope it was insured. The seller isn't responsible for what happens during shipping. Hope the customer gets his money back and can get it replaced.

Who was the carrier on this?
I don't think you can say with any certainly the seller isn't responsible. This will depend upon when the point of ownership changeover occurs. In the case where this is not explicit it may depend upon who engaged the courier and who paid for insurance (if purchased). If the shipper paid for both there is a strong argument the guitar is still owned by the seller until such time as received in good condition by the buyer. One obvious reason supporting this case is a party can't insure goods and claim for damage to them if they have no financial interest in them, since they have suffered no loss.

vincentx
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:41 am

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by vincentx » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:07 am

simonm wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:56 pm
Yuk. Very sorry to hear it. :-(

However, based on the one picture, it looks like it should be repairable. Certainly with some advice from your excellent connections it should even be possible to make the repair very discreet.

Simon
Thanks Simon. Yes, now this guitar will become my very first repairs. The silver lining is that I know all the original design.
1911 Jose Ramirez I SP/BR
1918 Enrique Garcia SP/BR No.195
1923 Hermann Hauser I Vienna SP/MP
1933 Enrique Coll Sinopoil SP/BR
1936 Santos Hernandez SP/BR
2002 Daniel Friederich CD/IN
2017 Marshall Brune SP/BR 1888 Torres Bench Copy

vincentx
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:41 am

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by vincentx » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:08 am

wchymeus wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:02 pm
Very sad story and certainly a lot of frustrations after putting many hours of love in a beautiful instrument.

I can't explain the big scratch on the side near the seam if the guitar stayed in its case though...
Thanks. I am waiting for the guitar shipping back to me for further inspection.
1911 Jose Ramirez I SP/BR
1918 Enrique Garcia SP/BR No.195
1923 Hermann Hauser I Vienna SP/MP
1933 Enrique Coll Sinopoil SP/BR
1936 Santos Hernandez SP/BR
2002 Daniel Friederich CD/IN
2017 Marshall Brune SP/BR 1888 Torres Bench Copy

vincentx
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:41 am

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by vincentx » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:09 am

soltirefa wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:27 pm
What a shame. Sorry you're going though that. It makes me think that you need to wrap the guitar like the Mars Rover landing thing so no amount of collision will harm it.

Image
Why didn't I think about this!
1911 Jose Ramirez I SP/BR
1918 Enrique Garcia SP/BR No.195
1923 Hermann Hauser I Vienna SP/MP
1933 Enrique Coll Sinopoil SP/BR
1936 Santos Hernandez SP/BR
2002 Daniel Friederich CD/IN
2017 Marshall Brune SP/BR 1888 Torres Bench Copy

vincentx
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:41 am

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by vincentx » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:15 am

Andy Culpepper wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:12 pm
Heartbreaking, so sorry to see that. I'm very interested in how the insurance claim goes, if you purchased insurance.

It's strange looking at the picture, I can't see the top lining/tentellones at all, is it very thin? One recommendation I would make is when cutting the binding and purfling channels, to cut a "staircase" so that the full lining is preserved and the purfling channels aren't routed all the way through the top.
I'm also trying to figure out how it's possible for the binding/purfling on the treble side to stay attached to the endgrain of the top, but pull completely away from the top lining. Do you have a photo of the inside of the guitar before closing the box?
Thanks. Yes, I did purchase insurance. Will see how it goes. I glued a reversed cedar lining on the side, and I did cut the "staircase", but don't know how it broke like this. I haven't got the guitar back yet. Will check later.
IMG_2830.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
1911 Jose Ramirez I SP/BR
1918 Enrique Garcia SP/BR No.195
1923 Hermann Hauser I Vienna SP/MP
1933 Enrique Coll Sinopoil SP/BR
1936 Santos Hernandez SP/BR
2002 Daniel Friederich CD/IN
2017 Marshall Brune SP/BR 1888 Torres Bench Copy

vincentx
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:41 am

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by vincentx » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:18 am

Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:22 am
Hope it was insured. The seller isn't responsible for what happens during shipping. Hope the customer gets his money back and can get it replaced.

Who was the carrier on this?
The carrier is actually not bad. It is SF Express in China. I'd say the best carrier.

And the funny thing is, as a full time software engineer, I was the architect of their core systems. And I led serval teams to build their routine planing, handhold device, cargo management systems. But not the insurance system...
1911 Jose Ramirez I SP/BR
1918 Enrique Garcia SP/BR No.195
1923 Hermann Hauser I Vienna SP/MP
1933 Enrique Coll Sinopoil SP/BR
1936 Santos Hernandez SP/BR
2002 Daniel Friederich CD/IN
2017 Marshall Brune SP/BR 1888 Torres Bench Copy

vincentx
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:41 am

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by vincentx » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:19 am

petermc61 wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:39 am
Laudiesdad69 wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:22 am
Hope it was insured. The seller isn't responsible for what happens during shipping. Hope the customer gets his money back and can get it replaced.

Who was the carrier on this?
I don't think you can say with any certainly the seller isn't responsible. This will depend upon when the point of ownership changeover occurs. In the case where this is not explicit it may depend upon who engaged the courier and who paid for insurance (if purchased). If the shipper paid for both there is a strong argument the guitar is still owned by the seller until such time as received in good condition by the buyer. One obvious reason supporting this case is a party can't insure goods and claim for damage to them if they have no financial interest in them, since they have suffered no loss.
Totally agreed. And I am going to build a new one for my client. Just a really heartbreaking experience.
1911 Jose Ramirez I SP/BR
1918 Enrique Garcia SP/BR No.195
1923 Hermann Hauser I Vienna SP/MP
1933 Enrique Coll Sinopoil SP/BR
1936 Santos Hernandez SP/BR
2002 Daniel Friederich CD/IN
2017 Marshall Brune SP/BR 1888 Torres Bench Copy

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souldier
Posts: 744
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:45 pm

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by souldier » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:47 am

I'm curious as to what specific case you used to ship it?
"Success grants its rewards to a few, but is the dream of the multitudes.
Excellence is available to all, but is accepted only by a few." - Christopher Parkening

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Elías López Cruz
Posts: 350
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:27 pm
Location: Puebla, Puebla; México

Re: A new born guitar devastated during shipping

Post by Elías López Cruz » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:51 am

What a pity! Poor guitar.
Guitars: "La Valenciana" model 113 (1976), "Tres Pinos" SCG-E112 (2007), "Sergio Mercado" Ramírez replica 2011, Arturo Hernández Hauser replica (2014), Karina Mendoza Fleta replica (2016).

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