Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
hesson11
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by hesson11 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:16 am

Experience isn't free of cost. And you're looking at that cost. Not a big deal. If that were the worst ding on any of my guitars, I'd be more than grateful. Stuff happens. Don't sweat it. Check out some classical guitar videos on YouTube, and you'll see far, far worse on much more expensive guitars. I'd leave it as is and just keep on playing.
-Bob

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attila57
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by attila57 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:11 pm

This happened to me a few years ago with my brand new flamenco guitar. Take my sympathy and try to forget about it! You can try to cover the chipped area with lacquer or cyanoacrylate glue, but it is not recommended, because you can easily cause more damage than there is already, and mess up the whole soundboard finish.

In these operations the tricky part is polishing the glue- or lacquer-covered spot so that the polished area blend into its surroundings. Even then, the re-finished spot will be visible forever. Sorry!

Cheer up!

Attila
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zupfgeiger
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by zupfgeiger » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:15 pm

Two loops are sufficient for the trebles if you knot the ends. No issue will ever occur if your trebles are properly knotted.
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georgemarousi
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by georgemarousi » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:02 pm

Don't worry at all, right there I do consider these marks "invisible". I have a deeper mark on my Bernabe from the same reason, and i never see it..

I would not touch it too - besides it will accompany you future marks (inevitable) :)

As suggested, Kling-on protectors have a small part for that area, I have now put that on too.

Moreover, Paulino Bernabe includes a small sand paper in his sets and advices to scratch a little the last few cm of the carbon strings - the part that ties. ( note: just a little, or the string might tear appart or break from that ) So they become non-slippery at the end, a good way to avoid this problem.
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Bsandesh
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by Bsandesh » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:20 am

Thanks for all the replies, my mind is definitely at ease now!
Does any one use the plastic clear tape near the bridge? Wanted to check if that thing leaves a mark on the wood, or any issues with it.
I am waiting for mine to arrive from "strings by mail", but wanted to make sure before I apply it on the guitar.

Cheers!!
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SteveL123
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by SteveL123 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:04 am

zupfgeiger wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:15 pm
Two loops are sufficient for the trebles if you knot the ends. No issue will ever occur if your trebles are properly knotted.
A knot should always be used on carbon e's IMO, not a melted ball end, which could snap off. Happened to me. Maybe a melted ball end on nylon is stronger than on carbon?

I installed a new carbon e on a 6 hole tie block about a month ago. 4 twists + knot . The knot was about 1/4" away from the tie block at first. Just checked and the string has slipped such that the knot is against the tie block and holding. If I didn't have a knot, it would have let go and caused some damage. I'll have to try the sand paper trick and see if it helps against slipping next time I put a new carbon e on.

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zupfgeiger
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by zupfgeiger » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:02 am

SteveL123 wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:04 am
zupfgeiger wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:15 pm
Two loops are sufficient for the trebles if you knot the ends. No issue will ever occur if your trebles are properly knotted.
A knot should always be used on carbon e's IMO, not a melted ball end, which could snap off. Happened to me. Maybe a melted ball end on nylon is stronger than on carbon?

I installed a new carbon e on a 6 hole tie block about a month ago. 4 twists + knot . The knot was about 1/4" away from the tie block at first. Just checked and the string has slipped such that the knot is against the tie block and holding. If I didn't have a knot, it would have let go and caused some damage. I'll have to try the sand paper trick and see if it helps against slipping next time I put a new carbon e on.
Melted ball ends do not work with carbon strings. They just don't burn and form balls the way nylon does.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started (Mark Twain)

Tobias Braun, Santos copy, spruce/yew, 2017
Andrea Tacchi, Enrique Garcia model, Spruce/BRAZ, 2016
Giovanni Tacchi, Daniel Friederich copy, cedar/EIR, 2017

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souldier
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by souldier » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:09 pm

Bsandesh wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:20 am
Thanks for all the replies, my mind is definitely at ease now!
Does any one use the plastic clear tape near the bridge? Wanted to check if that thing leaves a mark on the wood, or any issues with it.
I am waiting for mine to arrive from "strings by mail", but wanted to make sure before I apply it on the guitar.

Cheers!!
The ones from SBM are static cling so they don't use any adhesive that would leave a mark behind. An important thing to note is that these thin static cling sheets are not sufficient to protect your guitar from a ding. These only prevent minor superficial scratches, but they definitely will not protect against a string slipping at the tie block. It is still necessary to use a cardboard protector of some sort to provide complete protection. I just cut out the cardboard from a cereal box to size and it works perfectly.
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SteveL123
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by SteveL123 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:24 pm

Hi Souldier, in my limited experience, the high e carbon string does not slip during or shortly after installing it, it happens days later while in the case. If the static kling sheets from SBM do not protect the top from string slip dings, are you saying to leave the cardboard on all the time?

Do you think cardboard will prevent string dings from a slipped string? Has that been tested? Isn't thin cardboard from a cereal box softer than the SBM static kling plastic sheets? Wouldn't a slipped string slice through the cardboard with ease?

SteveL123
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by SteveL123 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:41 pm

zupfgeiger wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:02 am
SteveL123 wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:04 am
zupfgeiger wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:15 pm
Two loops are sufficient for the trebles if you knot the ends. No issue will ever occur if your trebles are properly knotted.
A knot should always be used on carbon e's IMO, not a melted ball end, which could snap off. Happened to me. Maybe a melted ball end on nylon is stronger than on carbon?

I installed a new carbon e on a 6 hole tie block about a month ago. 4 twists + knot . The knot was about 1/4" away from the tie block at first. Just checked and the string has slipped such that the knot is against the tie block and holding. If I didn't have a knot, it would have let go and caused some damage. I'll have to try the sand paper trick and see if it helps against slipping next time I put a new carbon e on.
Melted ball ends do not work with carbon strings. They just don't burn and form balls the way nylon does.
A melted ball end only come into play if the string slips, when the knot reach the bitter end. If a nylon high e string does not slip, the melted ball end is just sitting there looking pretty (or ugly) and serves no real useful purpose. Not so on a carbon high e, which always slips in my experience no matter now many twists you put in. I had a carbon high e with 3 twists + a melted ball end let go on a 12 hole tie block which made an ugly deep ding in my guitar. I have since tied a knot at the end and the string has slipped to the knot and it is holding by the knot. The knot is the only thing holding it. If the knot let go, I will get another ding.

I don't like the fact that a carbon high e slips.
The next carbon high e that I install will be sanded to a rough texture + a knot and will be monitored to see if the rougher texture prevents slipping. If so, together with a knot backup, I'd feel a lot more comfortable about it.

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zupfgeiger
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by zupfgeiger » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:05 pm

I found an easy solution. No carbon first string anymore. Also soundwise nylon is the better choice.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started (Mark Twain)

Tobias Braun, Santos copy, spruce/yew, 2017
Andrea Tacchi, Enrique Garcia model, Spruce/BRAZ, 2016
Giovanni Tacchi, Daniel Friederich copy, cedar/EIR, 2017

astro64
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by astro64 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:13 pm

I always put melted ends on my carbon trebles when I was still using them, never had a problem doing that. Hold the string up vertically once the string end is melted by the flame, a nice little thick end will form. But one should not have to rely on a knot or melted ball to hold the string in place. It should not slip at all when properly tied. Use enough windings at the tie block and make sure the last one goes behind the tie block.

An old credit card is perfect for protecting the instrument against string damage when you change strings. You just have to protect the area right behind the tie block. I take some paper tape, stick it to my sweater a few times to reduce the stickiness, then tape the card to the guitar before changing strings. I leave it one for a few hours afterwards to make sure the strings are not slipping. Never had a problem. My only guitar with a string ding came with it.

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andreas777
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by andreas777 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:23 pm

SteveL123 wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:24 pm
Hi Souldier, in my limited experience, the high e carbon string does not slip during or shortly after installing it, it happens days later while in the case. If the static kling sheets from SBM do not protect the top from string slip dings, are you saying to leave the cardboard on all the time?

Do you think cardboard will prevent string dings from a slipped string? Has that been tested? Isn't thin cardboard from a cereal box softer than the SBM static kling plastic sheets? Wouldn't a slipped string slice through the cardboard with ease?
I also use a cardboard when changing carbon string as can be seen here in this old post:
http://classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewt ... b#p1010828
Two or three times a string slipped with the cardboard in place but did not cause any damage on the top of my guitar. It sounds strange to me that a string slips days later in the case. It seems to me that the string knot was incorrect, otherwise I would recommend to untighten the strings a bit before putting the guitar in the case.
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SteveL123
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by SteveL123 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:34 pm

andreas777 wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:23 pm
SteveL123 wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:24 pm
Hi Souldier, in my limited experience, the high e carbon string does not slip during or shortly after installing it, it happens days later while in the case. If the static kling sheets from SBM do not protect the top from string slip dings, are you saying to leave the cardboard on all the time?

Do you think cardboard will prevent string dings from a slipped string? Has that been tested? Isn't thin cardboard from a cereal box softer than the SBM static kling plastic sheets? Wouldn't a slipped string slice through the cardboard with ease?
I also use a cardboard when changing carbon string as can be seen here in this old post:
http://classicalguitardelcamp.com/viewt ... b#p1010828
Two or three times a string slipped with the cardboard in place but did not cause any damage on the top of my guitar. It sounds strange to me that a string slips days later in the case. It seems to me that the string knot was incorrect, otherwise I would recommend to untighten the strings a bit before putting the guitar in the case.
I will respond when I have more time. Why do I get "You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post." when I clicked on your link? I am logged in when I clicked. I logged in again but still can't see the images.

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Andy Culpepper
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Re: Ding while changing strings on a brand new Guitar

Post by Andy Culpepper » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:49 pm

Unfortunate but nothing serious.

Personally I think a small protective "stringador", a little strip of clear plastic pickguard material behind the bridge is a simple thing that should be on every guitar.

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