Carving headplates , decor

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Jim Frieson
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:48 pm

Carving headplates , decor

Post by Jim Frieson » Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:56 am

Four of nine headplates, they will go on guitars of cipres maple , and jacaranda
Done with Japanese tools and a few I forged myself , during the recent typhoon
Now on to the building ....
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souldier
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Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by souldier » Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:56 pm

Are these only aesthetic changes or are you changing anything under the hood as well?
"Success grants its rewards to a few, but is the dream of the multitudes.
Excellence is available to all, but is accepted only by a few." - Christopher Parkening

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adamjohnson
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Location: Minnesota

Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by adamjohnson » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:24 pm

The line up headplates is a rather pleasant picture, impressive work.

I love files turned chisels, made a few myself, have yet to tackel a gouge though,

Adam

MrWopsle
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Location: Brooklyn

Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by MrWopsle » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:00 am

Lovely to see the work and the work behind the work. Cipres, and Jacaranda, but what about Cipres and Jacaranda! Ah, the difference a comma makes.

DD

Jim Frieson
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Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by Jim Frieson » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:05 am

adamjohnson wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:24 pm
The line up headplates is a rather pleasant picture, impressive work.

I love files turned chisels, made a few myself, have yet to tackel a gouge though,

Adam
You can get a thin flat file , heat it up bright orange , and then pound it fast on whatever steel at hand to use as a forming stake , shape it while soft and then heat it orange again and quench it hard and then final edge touch up on a fine stone .
I only spent about 10-15 minutes on that little gouge . Fast and dirty .
Trouble is , a torch is not ideal but it works in a pinch and that little tool was handy

Jim Frieson
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Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by Jim Frieson » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:17 am

MrWopsle wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:00 am
Lovely to see the work and the work behind the work. Cipres, and Jacaranda, but what about Cipres and Jacaranda! Ah, the difference a comma makes.

DD
A tangent , but you remind me of my status here in Japan as a member of the illiterati ....
A lovely combination ; the smell of jacaranda , cipres , Spanish cedar , all together alltogether intoxicating .

Jim Frieson
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Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by Jim Frieson » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:19 am

souldier wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:56 pm
Are these only aesthetic changes or are you changing anything under the hood as well?
Yes but maybe too subtle to talk about

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adamjohnson
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Location: Minnesota

Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by adamjohnson » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:04 am

Jim Frieson wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:05 am
You can get a thin flat file , heat it up bright orange , and then pound it fast on whatever steel at hand to use as a forming stake , shape it while soft and then heat it orange again and quench it hard and then final edge touch up on a fine stone .
I only spent about 10-15 minutes on that little gouge . Fast and dirty .
Trouble is , a torch is not ideal but it works in a pinch and that little tool was handy
Yeah, that is what I do, just have not done a gouge yet. Did a small dovetail chisel not to long ago, spent a good amount of time on that one, got it perfect, went to harden it and it was still soft, tried oil, same deal. Seems alot of file makers are switching to air hardening steels, ruining my fun. Thankfully old worn files are plentiful.

Jim Frieson
Posts: 497
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Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by Jim Frieson » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:29 am

adamjohnson wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:04 am
Jim Frieson wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:05 am
You can get a thin flat file , heat it up bright orange , and then pound it fast on whatever steel at hand to use as a forming stake , shape it while soft and then heat it orange again and quench it hard and then final edge touch up on a fine stone .
I only spent about 10-15 minutes on that little gouge . Fast and dirty .
Trouble is , a torch is not ideal but it works in a pinch and that little tool was handy
Yeah, that is what I do, just have not done a gouge yet. Did a small dovetail chisel not to long ago, spent a good amount of time on that one, got it perfect, went to harden it and it was still soft, tried oil, same deal. Seems alot of file makers are switching to air hardening steels, ruining my fun. Thankfully old worn files are plentiful.
I have had good luck with Japanese files and a propane torch with ambient air intake that gets up to 1900 degrees C . I am no expert but I think the less time in the heating process the better .
The best way would be to be able to grind the shape cold and keep all the hardness , but a conventional grinder on a file is slow , understatement , and gets mighty hot mighty fast .
I made some small chisels ( with the side edges ground to a knife edge too ideal for corner cutting )out of files with a grinder , but ground cold and used a diamond wheel - less heat with diamond .

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adamjohnson
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Location: Minnesota

Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by adamjohnson » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:04 am

My first chisels were done on a grinder, an old grinder and some files were left in the house I moved into and I needed something to distact me from life at the time, standing at the grinder did that quite well. Now I do a mixture of forging, a hand cranked grinder and diamond/oil stones, I also just got an old 12" hand cranked water stone which I am going to make a treadle for, should really ease the process, I may need to try one of those diamond wheels on my hand cranked grinder, the standard wheels do not work real well when the steel is soft, does great after the steel is hardened though.

I have found old Grobet files the best so far, believe they are American, have not tried their new files yet.

Do you temper your chisels after hardening? If yes how are you doing it? The chisels I have tempered I did over the the torch, held them about an inch from the end of the flame and just kept them moving until i got a straw yellow, it works but it is easy to go to far, I have kept some full hard, they can chip easy but they sure get sharp!

I think I need to make a new chisel soon, you got me in the mood.

Jim Frieson
Posts: 497
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Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by Jim Frieson » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:29 pm

No , no attempt at tempering at the cutting end . It I am going to be hitting it with a hammer for carving , I wiill put a bit of temper in the end that gets the hammer . Japanese chisels are pretty hard because the carbon steel is laminated to mild steel to take the shock so they , and I like them that way , you just have to be carefull with them . No knots and such .
I have a lapidary cutter , works with water . Messy though , best outdoors . I use a die grinder with a thin blade in the shop .
Lapidary equipment can come in handy .

MessyTendon
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Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by MessyTendon » Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:07 am

Is that an Ohira stone? I wish natural stones weren't so darned expensive. I paid 180$ for one...

Jim Frieson
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Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by Jim Frieson » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:56 am

MessyTendon wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:07 am
Is that an Ohira stone? I wish natural stones weren't so darned expensive. I paid 180$ for one...
From Kyoto , Ohira stones , expensive .
I got my natural source stones catch as catch can . as I chanced upon them in used stores here in Japan .
I am sure they would cost a lot more in upscale retail venue .
But no the pctured stones are man made stones .
A river stone , natural stone , you can't shape easily , and that is a virtue when you want to keep an edge flat and true , but if you want to shape a stone so that you can sharpen a carving tools , then man made stones are great for that as most of them are fairly soft .

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Gordon Guttmann
Amateur luthier
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Location: Seattle

Re: Carving headplates , decor

Post by Gordon Guttmann » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:31 pm

Very nice carvings! Something I've wanted to do.. I will try it soon. It can't hurt anything by just trying to carve a face plate. I think the carvings add warmth to a guitar. Like the guitar Baden Powell used to play for many years.

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