Warning shocking content!

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
Imbler
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by Imbler » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:07 am

I think part of it is the fact that there is a lot of epoxy and carbon composite on the inside. I'd rather have good saturated cloth, and the attendant glue mess than neat work with starved carbon.

I make carbon composite/walnut bridges, and luckily I build up a blank and then the uglies get machined away,
Mike

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Doug Ingram
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by Doug Ingram » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:01 am

I've worked with those same materials and they are damned difficult to work super clean and precise!

Add to that the super close up camera work and it can look worse than it actually is.

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Michael.N.
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by Michael.N. » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:13 am

mChavez wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:01 pm
I am surprised that players care about how their guitar looks on the inside. Nobody can see it from the outside, it does not affect the sound. Why would a luthier bother perfecting the look on the inside when that's the time that can be spent voicing a guitar and adding real value?
When you pop the bonnet of your car, you don't expect the car battery curves to follow the exterior design, right?
They do that anyway irrespective of how well the inside is finished. As to why they finish the inside to those standards see my previous answer.
Historicalguitars.

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James Lister
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by James Lister » Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:13 am

SteveL123 wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:56 pm
Does Smallman not use a double top? In the video, I do not see any hint of nomex honeycomb.
No - it's just a thin top, lattice braced.

James
James Lister, luthier, Sheffield UK

vesa
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by vesa » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:03 pm

1/3 of the visible cedar top covered inside with
what looks like epoxy glue spillage.
His tops are very thin, less than 1 mm and that amount of glue thrown over it with no audiable effect??? - I doubt.
But was it intentional or done in state of mind when you normally would not glue braces - because inside Smallman youtube video done by David Schramm shows totally different attitude to inside finish from the maker?
Vesa Kuokkanen

Antonio Marin nr. 813 1995 (Bouchet)
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chiral3
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by chiral3 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:26 pm

If you look closely you can see the Home Depot sticker on the plywood.
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chiral3
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by chiral3 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:29 pm

All joking aside, the biggest issue is that it sorta violates the artisanal aesthetic and runs head first into a bunch of prevalent cognitive biases.
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SteveL123
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by SteveL123 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:43 pm

chiral3 wrote:
Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:26 pm
If you look closely you can see the Home Depot sticker on the plywood.
Do they have Home Depot's in Australia? :contrat:

chiral3
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by chiral3 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:23 pm

They do. I had actually thought of that and checked. There's one in Sydney. :-)
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HNLim
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by HNLim » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:35 pm

Yang Xuefei's smallman was given to her by John Williams.

SteveL123
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by SteveL123 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:42 pm

Nothing wrong with plywood from Home Depot. It's being used as a structural member. If good enough for a cabinet, then good enough for a guitar.

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Frousse
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by Frousse » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:04 pm

Michael.N. wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:50 am
Smallman guitars are hardly the most attractive on the outside either - at least IMO. It's all about the sound and the performance. Given that many big name players use them I doubt that they are in the least bit bothered. Nor should we. Perhaps just stay away from calling them examples of highly refined world class craftsmanship.
I agree with all the points except the "Nor should we". It is an individual's decision. If one feels It does not matter, that is his/her prerogative. If, on the other hand, one thinks it matters, that is also his/her prerogative. After all, it is his/her money being spent.

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Michael.N.
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by Michael.N. » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:20 pm

The 'nor should we' bit refers to those who are not interested in buying a Smallman. After all what does it matter to me whether a guitar has glue blobs and smears all over the inside? It doesn't and it seems the people that do buy them aren't that concerned either - which is fair enough. There's not a lot more that one can say.
Historicalguitars.

Alan Carruth
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by Alan Carruth » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:20 pm

To me that just looks like CF/epoxy construction that has been vacuum bagged. It's the best way to do it structurally, but can be messy, and it would be awfully hard to clean up without scraping through the thin top. It's no worse in terms of workmanship than many 18th and 19th century instruments, as Michael says. Given the limitations of the method you might wait a long time to find a neat one.

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chrispeppler
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Re: Warning shocking content!

Post by chrispeppler » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:47 pm

The videos and the comments raise some questions for me:
1. When I was taught to build my guitar, the master craftsman working with me insisted that all surplus glue be removed from the inside of the guitar because it would affect the 'flow' of sound within the body. Is this a factor, or does this consideration only apply to fan-braced guitars?
2. Would the Smallman in question sound 'better' if the top was not partially covered in glue and resin?
I have no experience with constructing lattice-braced guitars, so all I can do is raise questions and hope that an experienced luthier on the forum can provide answers.

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