Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
iain

Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by iain » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:25 pm

| have 2 string dings on my sounboard any suggestions how to repair them as they look terrible.

montana
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Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by montana » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:24 am

recently had a string snap at the bridge.I'm not taking any more chances,I'm putting a small towel around the strings from the bridge to the fretboard..at the sound hole . I'll do this when i put my guitar away in the case.

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Les Backshall
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Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by Les Backshall » Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:30 am

From my own experience and what I have heard/read, it would seem that 12 hole tie blocks are more susceptible to string slippage (or at least the resulting whiplash effect) than the traditional 6 hole. Also, that the 'titanium' and 'carbon' strings are more of a problem than nylon. I'd be interested in learning the tie block/ string set up of those who have had this problem, in order to get more idea of whether this might be true, or not.

Les
Lester Backshall, Guitar Maker - Aylesbury UK

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Vlad Kosulin
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Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by Vlad Kosulin » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:02 am

Problem with 12-hole tie block can be related to the fact that many believe it is less prone to string slippage and do not use additional loop.
I had 1st string slip once some time ago with 6-hole tie block. Lesson learned.
Also, usually after restring I leave guitar overnight with top protection on.
Regards,
Vlad
(still testing various strings with 2006 Sebastian Stenzel and Olinda OC-300)

Paul Micheletti
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Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by Paul Micheletti » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:13 pm

I was stringing up the flamenco guitar I recently completed for the first time. This was my first 12-hole bridge so that was new to me. The 1st string was holding fine until I started to adjust the saddle. When I reduced string tension, the loop that goes over the tie-block loosened and the 1st string slipped under the loop causing a nasty ding below the bridge. I steamed out much of the dent, but decided to live with the remainder of the dent as a lesson in what not to do in the future since this is my own guitar and is not for sale. The worst part is that I created a small ball by melting the end of the string, and this small ball still fit through the bridge hole and made an even deeper dent in the top than if the ball wasn't there.

Lessons learned:
1) Don't change strings without some form of protection on the top
2) Don't bother with melting a ball in the end of the string. It will only do more damage *when* it slips
3) 12-hole bridges need extra tail loops on at least the 1 string and probably also the 2 string. Don't rely on the tiny amount of friction between narrow nylon strings at a 90 degree angle to hold this level of tension.

Jim Kirby
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Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by Jim Kirby » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:04 pm

I'm not sure I agree with the notion of not melting a ball on the end of the string. I've just been getting used to the first 18 hole bridge that I've built, and on at least one of the sets of strings installed, the e and b strings definitely slipped until stopped by the ball. But they did stop and hold there.

I'm curious about the notion of installing a small strip of mylar or other golpeador material behind the bridge as a solution.
Jim Kirby
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Guitars? Heh, I can hardly play, and when I do it's one of mine.

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James Lister
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Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by James Lister » Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:41 am

I'm inclined to agree with Vlad, in that I suspect we hear frequent cases of strings slipping out of 12-hole tie blocks because players believe they are more secure, or simply don't know how to tie them correctly. I've been using 12-hole tie blocks for about 3 years now I think, and tying them with the method shown on my website, and I've never had any problem with slippage. To be fair, I do always use nylon strings, and carbons do seem to be more prone to slipping. This is why I do recommend melting a ball on the end of the string. I've tried pulling/breaking the melted end off, and it's not easy, and don't forget it doesn't need to hold the full tension of the string, just provide a bit of extra resistance to slippage.

James
James Lister, luthier, Sheffield UK

Paul Micheletti
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Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by Paul Micheletti » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:26 am

Jim Kirby wrote:I'm curious about the notion of installing a small strip of mylar or other golpeador material behind the bridge as a solution.
At GAL this year, I saw that Len Laviolette put a small (guessing about 1/2" wide) piece of golpeador material behind the bridge tie block area. It's such a small piece that i cannot see how it would affect the sound, and it is a nice insurance policy to protect your customer from accidentally damaging the top when changing strings. That guitar sounded great in the classical listening session, so it obviously did no harm.

iain

Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by iain » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:41 pm

why not try string ties
Iain

peggysue

Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by peggysue » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:12 am

Hello,

I use a Bridge Bib when changing strings. Just as a precaution,I leave it in place for a short period of time in the event the strings have a delayed catastrophic reaction. You can see it on the Strings by mail site. Its saved my butt a few times!!

John

Finn

Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by Finn » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:52 pm

iain wrote:| have 2 string dings on my sounboard any suggestions how to repair them as they look terrible.
If this occurs, anybody can share how to remove them? Or it can never been removed easily unless re-polish the top again?

Jeff Highland
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Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by Jeff Highland » Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:56 am

18 Hole tie blocks are not completely immune to string slippage, but if it does happen, there is no unrestrained section to whip over and onto the soundboard.
When changing strings I generally have to cut the loop behind the tieblock with nail clippers to release the string.
Guitar building and repair at Caves Beach, Australia

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Brad Little
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Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by Brad Little » Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:21 pm

I've used the heated ball end for years and like it fine. I also use an adaptation of an overhand knot on the tuner end of the unwound strings after an 'e' string slipped completely through using the regular method.
Brad

LBrandt
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Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by LBrandt » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:04 pm

I use the same bridge bib from Strings by Mail that was mentioned above. It's great.

Patrick delBosque

Re: Are Some Guitars Prone to STRING DING?

Post by Patrick delBosque » Tue Mar 13, 2012 5:18 pm

I was re-stringing again this past weekend and had to do the B string 5 times before it would stay. The first attempt broke the string and finally I just tied a granny knot to keep it from slipping. At least no string ding this time.
Patrick

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