New Tuners for Old Ramirez

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
ChiyoDad

Re: New Tuners for Old Ramirez

Post by ChiyoDad » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:17 pm

robin loops wrote:Yeah, changing tuners isn't like changing strings.
I know guitarists who are far better than me and who take their strings to a shop to have them changed.

Ken Thompson

Re: New Tuners for Old Ramirez

Post by Ken Thompson » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:19 am

I went through this exact problem a few years back with my 1970 ramirez R3 guitarra de estudio. The Fusteros were 36mm and all the modern tuners are 35mm. Fortunately there is a luthier in Denver who has a stash of tuners from old guitars that were broken beyond repair and then the parts were salvaged.
My recommendation? Start checking with luthiers all across the country for a good set of the originals off a broken guitar. After all the stress I went through, it really felt good to just slip the tuners in the holes and tighten the screws.
Ken

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Peter Tsiorba
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Re: New Tuners for Old Ramirez

Post by Peter Tsiorba » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:00 am

Determining string spacing on your vintage Ramirez may be a first good step. If it is standard 35mm spacing, your dilemma is mostly solved. Almost any one of the high-end tuner makers, such as Alessi, Rogers, etc., can make a custom set if cost is not an objection.

Used vintage tuners with correct roller post spacing are not a guaranteed solution, as often those tuners are quite likely to have issues of their own. It's a bit like buying used auto parts for a vintage car. Unless you have access to a good machinist, you may be replacing one problem with another. Gilbert makes individual tuning machine sections that can be "stacked" but they are almost certain to look rather odd on a vintage guitar, unless your aesthetic preferences are very secondary to function.

One time I did a rather unusual conversion on tuners, in part due to the fact that tuners were rather worn, and the owner wanted pegs. I am not suggesting you go that route, this is just to add to the layers of the dilemma you are facing.

http://www.tsiorba.com/converting-from- ... ise-versa/

All the best in finding a suitable solution. If you love the guitar and the sound, I'd consider keeping it. It's like retiring favorite quality leather shoes too early. A sin!
Peter Tsiorba
Maker and Restorer since 2001
Classical and Flamenco Guitars
Portland, Oregon USA

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SeanWinkler
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Re: New Tuners for Old Ramirez

Post by SeanWinkler » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:18 am

guitardude127 wrote:I have a worn out 1974 Ramirez 1a. I really should part with the guitar and buy a more modern instrument, but I love the guitar so much and have such sentimental attachment to it....

Anyway, the original tuners are worn pretty bad and really need to be replaced. If you were to replace the original tuners, what would you put on that would remain true to the style, and would function well, but wouldn't necessarily break the bank?
I did a similar search a little over a year ago for my 1968 1A, but I wound up selling it before I made any changes. As others have pointed out, the first thing you should do is check the roller spacing with an accurate metric ruler (measure from center to center of adjacent roller screws). Most aftermarket machines these days are 35mm, but many of the older Fustero machines on the Ramirez 1As are 36mm. If that's the case, your selection will be limited and hard to find. The "lyre" style baseplate is the traditional style for Ramirez of this vintage, and you can get decent sets from Gotoh or Schaller (but 35mm spacing). Gotoh used to make a 36mm set, but I'm not sure if those are readily available anymore.

The best results in terms of quality and fit would be to have a set made by one of the custom outfits (Rodgers, Alessi, etc.), but that decision will depend on your budget. If you have 36mm spacing, you might be able to get away with 35mm sets if the roller holes have some play. I would recommend self-supporting machines in that case (sleeve on the outside end of roller and bearing on the inside edge), since the tighter fit might otherwise cause too much friction with standard rollers. With a guitar that has such value to you, I'd personally recommend getting the advice of a qualified luthier on any of these decisions, and probably for the installation as well.

Good luck!
Remember Anthony Weller, please help. Contact myself or Aaron Green for details.

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Peter Frary
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Re: New Tuners for Old Ramirez

Post by Peter Frary » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:14 am

Nice discussion. Thank you. Anybody find a source for the many fabled tuners with 36mm roller spacing? Hopefully a stock set from Gotoh or similar.

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James Lister
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Re: New Tuners for Old Ramirez

Post by James Lister » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:30 am

Peter Frary wrote:
Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:14 am
Nice discussion. Thank you. Anybody find a source for the many fabled tuners with 36mm roller spacing? Hopefully a stock set from Gotoh or similar.
Hi Peter,

Gotoh make a 39mm spacing tuner, but I've not seen a 36mm. Rubner in Germany are probably the cheapest for custom spacings, so you might give them a try. Other option is individual tuners - e.g. Shertler.

James
James Lister, luthier, Sheffield UK

es335
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Re: New Tuners for Old Ramirez

Post by es335 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:59 pm

36 mm spacing is typical Landsdorfer/Reischl.

I too would suggest Rubner for customized tuners. There ask little to no surcharge and their delivery is comparatively short.

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Peter Frary
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Re: New Tuners for Old Ramirez

Post by Peter Frary » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:36 pm

Mahalo, I'll look into Rubner and Shertler

OldPotter
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Re: New Tuners for Old Ramirez

Post by OldPotter » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:41 am

Just making sure that you knew, that Rodgers tuners could be returned for repair.
"When I was younger, I could remember almost everything, whether it happened or not." Mark Twain

Grooveman JS
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Re: New Tuners for Old Ramirez

Post by Grooveman JS » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:07 am

I totally agree; i think its a job that's to be undertaken by an experienced luthier.....& as for brand I'll say Gotoh on all counts....quality, price, reliability , ease of use.
Masaki Sakurai MA-RF
Antonio Picado Concierto DT

Gil_Wade
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Re: New Tuners for Old Ramirez

Post by Gil_Wade » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:55 am

I put Sloans on my 1991 1A. From StewMac. Look beautiful. Are very, very smooth! more than $75, less than $200
Gil ( o )===:::

Gilbert Wade, Certified Music Practitioner

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