Different Spruce? Sitka?

Construction and repair of Classical Guitar and related instruments
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HNLim
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by HNLim » Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:04 pm

Would a high density Sitka Spruce be suitable for neck construction?
1978 Yamaha GC30A - S/BRW
2012 Esteve Adalid - S/BRW
2014 Sen #5 - S/BRW
2016 HNLim - S/BRW
1974 S.Yairi 950 S/BRW -10-string-convert 2015
HN Lim 14-string - S/BRW - Self-made
HN Lim 15-string - S/NEW - WIP
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Scot Tremblay
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by Scot Tremblay » Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:11 pm

HNLim wrote:Would a high density Sitka Spruce be suitable for neck construction?
I have used it for 19th century necks that were veneered and it worked just great...however, veneered necks are strong to begin with. Back in the day, many were made with Poplar or spruce/pine and show remarkably little distortion considering the age of some of them. So, I cannot really say, absolutely for sure, if the Sitka was responsible for the stability or the construction technique.
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"One picture is worth a thousand words. So, for me, one good note put where it should be put, will say what it will take some people many notes to say. ~B.B. King, 1986

Dofpic
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by Dofpic » Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:11 pm

Marcus, when you use it for a double top do you have cedar as the inner piece of two pieces of sitka?
Spruce,2011Fritz Ober(maple), 2015 Eric Sahlin, 2006 Greg Byers(fan not lattice)
2012 Michel Bruck ,2012 Martin Blackwell, 2001 Dominique Field
Cedar, 2014 Joshua DeJonge,

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Michael.N.
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by Michael.N. » Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:15 pm

HNLim wrote:Would a high density Sitka Spruce be suitable for neck construction?
Maybe, if it was a very dense piece. It has excellent strength to weight ratio. If it was reinforced or veneered, no doubt that it could.
Veneering the back of a Neck really does increase it's stiffness.
Historicalguitars.

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HNLim
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by HNLim » Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:34 pm

Any examples of how a veneer neck looks like?
Would adding ebony or rosewood strips help?
1978 Yamaha GC30A - S/BRW
2012 Esteve Adalid - S/BRW
2014 Sen #5 - S/BRW
2016 HNLim - S/BRW
1974 S.Yairi 950 S/BRW -10-string-convert 2015
HN Lim 14-string - S/BRW - Self-made
HN Lim 15-string - S/NEW - WIP
1974 S.Yairi 800 : Retired

ALL ARE FOR SALE

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Michael.N.
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by Michael.N. » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:24 am

I don't think I've ever seen a veneered neck on a modern Classical, they are often found on Romantic/Baroque Guitars and Lutes. The heel found on modern Classical guitars doesn't lend itself to being veneered, although there's no reason why a cone heel can't be done.
Historicalguitars.

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bacsidoan
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by bacsidoan » Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:58 pm

Michael.N. wrote:I don't think I've ever seen a veneered neck on a modern Classical, they are often found on Romantic/Baroque Guitars and Lutes. The heel found on modern Classical guitars doesn't lend itself to being veneered, although there's no reason why a cone heel can't be done.
Picture of a maple guitar with AFB veneer neck built by Sebastian Stenzel, posted by rojarosguitar
DelSeb02.jpg
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HNLim
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by HNLim » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:41 pm

Wouldn't adding one or two strips of carbon fiber rod do the trick?
1978 Yamaha GC30A - S/BRW
2012 Esteve Adalid - S/BRW
2014 Sen #5 - S/BRW
2016 HNLim - S/BRW
1974 S.Yairi 950 S/BRW -10-string-convert 2015
HN Lim 14-string - S/BRW - Self-made
HN Lim 15-string - S/NEW - WIP
1974 S.Yairi 800 : Retired

ALL ARE FOR SALE

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Michael.N.
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by Michael.N. » Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:46 pm

Probably, given that there must be countless thousands of fairly lightweight Cedrela neck guitars around without any form of reinforcement.
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Filipp
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by Filipp » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:44 am

Hey guys, first off - this is for sound purposes purely, so don't take it as my attempt to push a sale here.

If you check "for sale" page, there are 2 guitars I posted that share same tops - sitkas. There are sound-clips of both guitars. I recorded them without any audio enhancements.
Don't know about you guys but I can not tell the difference between sitka vs german vs. whatever spruce in a blind audio test that's for sure....
2005 Danielson, experimental

Alan Carruth
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by Alan Carruth » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:54 pm

Considering how hard it is to make 'matched' guitars even when you start with 'the same' material I don't see how anybody could reliably pick out one variety of spruce from another in well made guitars from competent luthiers.

Dofpic
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by Dofpic » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:34 pm

I totally agree. I own guitars with Swiss, German, Englemann,Italian that I cannot tell the difference other than the builders style. The only way would be if the same builder used the different woods, but again unless the sides and backs and bracing materials are also the same probably impossible to know.
Spruce,2011Fritz Ober(maple), 2015 Eric Sahlin, 2006 Greg Byers(fan not lattice)
2012 Michel Bruck ,2012 Martin Blackwell, 2001 Dominique Field
Cedar, 2014 Joshua DeJonge,

printer2
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by printer2 » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:10 pm

HNLim wrote:Would a high density Sitka Spruce be suitable for neck construction?
I made a couple of guitars with necks using Fir, might be a little harder than spruce but not by all that much.

Image

One of them sits beside me when I am at my computer and gets picked up more than any other. The problem with using a softer wood for a neck is that it dents easily. This one has a few dings already.
Fred

Marcus Dominelli
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by Marcus Dominelli » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:47 am

printer2 wrote:I made a couple of guitars with necks using Fir, might be a little harder than spruce but not by all that much.
The fir you've used in your picture there is second growth douglas fir. It's not much heavier than spruce, I agree. I would not feel comfortable using it for a neck. Hopefully yours will remain stable - good call on using a truss rod!

The old growth douglas fir has much higher density, closer grain lines, and it works nicely with machine or hand tools. And it is less prone to having reaction wood, like the second growth wood.
I guess you can tell I'm not a big fan of second growth DF....

printer2
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Re: Different Spruce? Sitka?

Post by printer2 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:36 am

I have one piece of old growth Fir, might use it for a Telecaster neck. Double the grain count of the above neck. I had a few pine bodies I made, not worth using good wood for the necks so I used the Fir. Speaking of using Spruce for a neck,

Image

I made some necks out of a 2x6 for couple of the bodies. My sister is an artist and she wanted them as a canvas to do a quick creation for groups that call her up to donate a piece of art for an auction. Something I did not bother with when I made it is dealing with the neck geometry. It will never have strings on it so why bother. Well I guess never is not as long as I thought. I can play all the open strings but the high E without much buzzing. And from the fourth fret to the seventh it is not too bad. The rest forget it. Not all that loud, actually would be a good practice volume and not bother others. Does not sound all that horrible where you can play it and I can see why you can play a nylon for hours. Easy on the fingers. I may have to build a real neck for this one. Pine top back and sides. No truss rod on this one.
Fred

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