Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Un sueño en la floresta - Video

Audio and video recordings of the works of Agustín Barrios Mangoré
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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:07 am

earl wrote: hello friend,

I think you are playing this too fast for your technical abilities. The scale in the middle part lost it's tension and sounded, well, hilarious. the whole piece was too fast, sacrificing legato on the melody and proper phrasing and "singing" of the lines. It was a great effort though, maybe next time play something that suites your technique level.

Just my opinion. I don't think it's right that when one forum member says bravo, everybody else follows.

Earl
I agree that empty platitudes don't achieve much (and may even be morally suspect). However, this criticism of yours is very typical of those who hear music on the classical guitar (and there are many who suffer in this way) as a kind of gymnastics in which only the physical and technical aspects are of any importance.
Cyrloud's performance here has what is known as emotion, soul, feeling, passion...
In any case, technically I think he is very well able to cope with this piece. The scale passage you're talking about might not sound like Paco de Lucia but it is pretty good. If we're just talking technique here, what about his tremolo... 8)

earl

Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by earl » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:40 pm

Hi Denian,

That was exactly my point, the performance sounded like it was too "gymnastic". I am not saying that Cyrloud's performance was void of emotion, soul, feeling and passion. But his intentions of playing the piece with emotion was overcome by his desire to play it fast. His tremolo was actually good, but his left hand couldn't keep up so he couldn't achieve legato on the melody.
I still think that technically he is not able to cope with this piece. If he had thought more about the phrasing and played it a little slower, I'm pretty sure it would sound so much better.
I am quite a critic but I mean it to be constructive. I' am not a very articulate person, so, sorry if it sounds "not constructive".
Last edited by earl on Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:59 pm

Point taken earl, and sorry if I sounded a bit snotty. I'm quite a fan of cyrloud's playing because his performances sound like there's a genuine human feeling behind them. For me, the great majority of players these days all sound the same (I'm talking about the top flight), with great technique, but are rather arid, correct and boring in style. Cyrloud's playing on the other hand is full of feeling and emotion and I think his technique, if not in the Barrueco or Russell league, is very good indeed and serves the music he plays very well.

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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by Moderato » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:54 am

earl wrote:Hi Denian,

That was exactly my point, the performance sounded like it was too "gymnastic". I am not saying that Cyrloud's performance was void of emotion, soul, feeling and passion. But his intentions of playing the piece with emotion was overcome by his desire to play it fast. His tremolo was actually good, but his left hand couldn't keep up so he couldn't achieve legato on the melody.
I still think that technically he is not able to cope with this piece. If he had thought more about the phrasing and played it a little slower, I'm pretty sure it would sound so much better.
I am quite a critic but I mean it to be constructive. I' am not a very articulate person, so, sorry if it sounds "not constructive".
Wow, I don't agree at all. I think this is his interpretation of the piece and he is more than technically able to play it. I enjoyed hearing the piece from a different perspective to what I'm used to.
03 Ramirez 1a CD/BR
06 Baroque Lute - 13 Course w/Bass Rider

rlatkin

Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by rlatkin » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:02 am

I liked this piece and I liked Cyrloud's performance. If I don't like something, I usually don't say anything at all.
:bravo: Cyrloud, and :merci:

sting6ph
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by sting6ph » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:54 am

truly amazing...I'll try to look up for some sheet here and try it this weekend

earl

Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by earl » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:28 am

Moderato wrote: Wow, I don't agree at all. I think this is his interpretation of the piece and he is more than technically able to play it. I enjoyed hearing the piece from a different perspective to what I'm used to.
If he is more than technically able to play it, he would have played it perfectly. What perspective are you used to? It wouldn't hurt to raise our standards as an audience Moderato. I know we are all trying to be courteous in this forum, and I think it's great. But do not rave about something and say it's really good when in fact it isn't. It wouldn't help the guy who posted the video. I'm all in for constructive criticism, not patronizing.

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:58 am

earl wrote: do not rave about something and say it's really good when in fact it isn't.
That's the funny thing here. Some of us, including me, evidently think that this is really good. My standards in listening are pretty high too, but it's the poetic feeling in cyrloud's playing that really gets to me; and I still think that even technically this is very good.

earl

Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by earl » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:27 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote:
earl wrote: do not rave about something and say it's really good when in fact it isn't.
That's the funny thing here. Some of us, including me, evidently think that this is really good. My standards in listening are pretty high too, but it's the poetic feeling in cyrloud's playing that really gets to me; and I still think that even technically this is very good.
I think you're one of the few in this forum who can actually play Denian, as in concert stage level. But I am surprised you really think this is good, I would think a musician of your competence would have a more discerning ear. I guess it's just me
then.

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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by Moderato » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:46 pm

earl wrote: If he is more than technically able to play it, he would have played it perfectly. What perspective are you used to? It wouldn't hurt to raise our standards as an audience Moderato. I know we are all trying to be courteous in this forum, and I think it's great. But do not rave about something and say it's really good when in fact it isn't. It wouldn't help the guy who posted the video. I'm all in for constructive criticism, not patronizing.
I know he is technically able to play this piece because he has a TON of videos on youtube and this is his style. This is the way he plays, it's not a question of ability or technique, it is a question of choice. You might not like his style and that's fine, I'm completely OK with that but for you to say this is poor because his technical abilities are lacking is false. Furthermore you're presenting an opinion so you need to stop talking to me like I can't discern good playing from poor playing simply because I enjoyed this interpretation, in fact I enjoy just about all of his videos. I've played CG for many years, I have many CD's, I've been to many CG concerts and I know the difference between a bad player and a good one. Sometimes it's refreshing to hear someone play a piece in a different way or from a different perspective. I don't need to hear the same piece, played the exact same way by 100 different players.
03 Ramirez 1a CD/BR
06 Baroque Lute - 13 Course w/Bass Rider

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Erik Zurcher
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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by Erik Zurcher » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:54 pm

I don't need to hear the same piece, played the exact same way by 100 different players.
:bravo:
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"While you try to master classical guitar, prepare for a slave's life: the guitar will forever be your master and you its slave".

earl

Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by earl » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:05 pm

Moderato wrote: Furthermore you're presenting an opinion so you need to stop talking to me like I can't discern good playing from poor playing simply because I enjoyed this interpretation, in fact I enjoy just about all of his videos.
I'm sorry Moderato, but if you really think this performance is excellent then yes, you can't discern good playing from poor playing.
Moderato wrote: I don't need to hear the same piece, played the exact same way by 100 different players.
I never said his playing was bad because it was not the same interpretation by 100 other different players. I just said it's not as good as everybody else thinks.

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Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by Moderato » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:19 pm

earl wrote: I'm sorry Moderato, but yes, you can't discern good playing from poor playing.
Yes I can. You can't discern your opinion from fact.
earl wrote: I never said his playing was bad because it was not the same interpretation by 100 other different players.
I know you never said that but that wasn't the point. The point is that it isn't a question of technique, ability, or good vs. bad, it's a question of interpretation. If you look at his other videos you will see that this is his unique style and I like it.

earl wrote:I just said it's not as good as everybody else thinks.
Once again this is your opinion.
03 Ramirez 1a CD/BR
06 Baroque Lute - 13 Course w/Bass Rider

earl

Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by earl » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:26 pm

Moderato wrote:
earl wrote: I'm sorry Moderato, but yes, you can't discern good playing from poor playing.
Yes I can. You can't discern your opinion from fact.
Here's one fact Moderato, you can't discern good playing from poor playing. I am not trying to demean you or anything, but yes again you can't discern good playing from poor playing.

Anese

Re: Barrios Mangoré, Agustín - Sueno en la floresta

Post by Anese » Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:29 pm

:casque: that was a wonderful thing to listen to ..thanks

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