Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

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This forum is for our discussions on any classical guitar works. Regardless of whether these works are still under copyright, we can illustrate our discussions with extracts to a maximum length of 8 bars or 30 seconds, using attached audio files (mp3, wav or wma) or video files (mov or wmv). Only attached files are permitted. Links to audio and video files are not allowed. However, we can say in our posts "you can hear a model interpretation by such and such a guitarist on such and such a site".

This forum serves as a place of mutual help if we are stuck on a technical or musical difficulty, whether the problem stems from the notes, the rhythm, the dynamics, or the fingering. We can post several successive versions of the extract, as our work on it progresses. This will serve to help not only the member who is presenting his work, but also indirectly the dozens of other members who are having the same issues with the same passage, but who don't have the equipment or the technical knowledge to post a recording.

As a rule there should be just one topic per work. If several discussions arise on the same work, the moderators will merge the threads together.
Hugo Kleinhans

Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by Hugo Kleinhans » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:21 pm

I've been busy with this suite for quite some time now, but will probably always feel like it isn't quite ready yet. This is the first section of the Allemande. I've deliberately used my first take to give a true representation of where I am at. Any positive or negative feedback will be greatly appreciated. :merci:

ps. I will be adding various extracts to this as time goes
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Aucaman
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Re: Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by Aucaman » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:28 am

HI Hugo,
Let me start by saying that you are doing an amazing job with this piece. You don't seem to have any technical problems with the trickiest parts of this Allemande and the lines flow just right one after the other. :bravo:

I've been playing this piece for sometime and I still find issues that need to be resolved. One that I'm working on (and that you seem to have already solved) is the squeaking I get with the last three chords in Part A. You do not squeak at all :mrgreen: and I suspect you are using Frank Koonce's fingering, which I recently became aware of.
Let me make a couple of suggestions on what you could do to take your work to the next level. First some note correction. I think I heard some wrong notes in three sections.
1.- Bar 2 after the base line phrase from B to B,the next 3 pitches are E D E. I think you repeat E three times instead.
2.- Bar 5 the last four pitches don't sound quite right, but I can't point out exactly what the problem is. Check it out.
3.- Bar 16 The first pitch is G. I think you play something else.

OK. My first suggestion is that, at this stage, you need to slow down. If you play it much more slowly, you will be able to focus on bringing out the various voices. You can do this first by identifying the beginning and end of each phrase. For example, the very first phrase seems to be composed of the first 14 pitches with the stick up. Think of that as one unit, "breathe" (a very slight pause) and then move onto the second phrase.
My second (and last) piece of advice would be to slow down with the last four pitches at the very end of the piece.

All the best to you and I look forward to your next recording :bye:

Los Guitarrista

Re: Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by Los Guitarrista » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:26 am

Your technique sounds excellent- all of the notes sound clearly. My advice is to let the music flow a little more without increasing the tempo. A little less staccato and a less measurement could help.
At the moment, I'm revising the Bourree and starting on the Prelude. Maybe I'll post a recording. I'd like to know what you think.

Hugo Kleinhans

Re: Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by Hugo Kleinhans » Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:29 pm

Thanks so much for all your advice guys!

Daniel337

Re: Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by Daniel337 » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:32 am

Hugo,
I enjoyed your playing on these. I'd like to hear a current recording of where your interpretation has lead you!
Daniel

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Re: Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by Bal125 » Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:27 am

Its full of character and period appropriate..maybe a little more legato and dynamic variation would help shape the phrases but technically you sound very accomplished which is to your credit. I did feel the Allemande was a shade faster than it needed to be but it still flowed beautifully so that is highly subjective. Bach is often played too fast, a point often overlooked. In reality it would have been a little slower throughout to allow room for ornamentation, which is Bachs day was prolific, if you can find Bachs notes on ornamentation it make a fascinating/daunting read. This however takes nothing away from a very nice performance. May I just add as an afterthought that it is not uncommon for Allemandes to be taken a little swiftly, it is something about the flowing continuity that drives them along..equally Siciliennes are often taken too slowly but it's subjective and nit picking unless it's too far one way or another..(I speak from experience having been hauled over the coals for a Siscilienne taken a tad too slow (Cimarosa Oboe Concerto),..it needed to move more but I was intent on milking every note for all it was worth in every phrase, (cue very French Oboist making a very agitated continental point...soon learnt my lesson there). :roll:

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Re: Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by Allemandebro47 » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:27 pm

I'm new so pardon me if I write something out of line.

Hugo, your work sounds great. I've got the first half down pat but I've barely started the second half. I hope in the future I can post something that sounds so good.

I was wondering if anyone knows why Segovia recorded this in A minor, and if anyone knows where an A minor version of the sheet music/tab might be found. I learned the entire first part and then found the Segovia version in A and re-learned it. Now I have to learn the second part only to transpose it to A, but that's fine because it's one of my favorite Bach pieces.

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Re: Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by Marko Räsänen » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:03 pm

Welcome to Delcamp forum, Allemandebro47! Could you introduce yourself in here?

Please note that the person who started this topic is no longer a member of this forum (the account name is black and cannot be clicked), so you my have a better chance of getting an answer to your question if you posted a new topic, for example, in Classical Guitar Classes section of the forum.

See you around!
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Gorobete
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Re: Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by Gorobete » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:15 am

Hello Hugo,

We can hear the improvement from the first extract. It began to flow! Very nice and this is not a very easy work to play. I personally like the Segovia's style where you can hear the mathematics of Bach combined with the poetry of Chopin :) . Off course they will be some to say he is not playing exactly like Bach wrote it :) . I think you should try to color it a little bit . This is only my opinion off course.
In any case you did a nice job!
Cheers

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Re: Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by Gorobete » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:20 am

Sorry this was the double of the message, but I cannot delete it..

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Re: Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by zupfgeiger » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:32 am

Although Hugo seems not to be a member anymore I must say that I like his rendition. Very nice job on the Allemande. First lute suite is all but easy to master. I am practicing this suite for years, and still the Presto as well as the Gigue seem to be unplayable in a proper way. Nonetheless it's a great joy and a task for a lifetime to play BWV 996.
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James Lister
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Re: Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by James Lister » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:44 am

zupfgeiger wrote:Although Hugo seems not to be a member anymore I must say that I like his rendition. Very nice job on the Allemande. First lute suite is all but easy to master. I am practicing this suite for years, and still the Presto as well as the Gigue seem to be unplayable in a proper way. Nonetheless it's a great joy and a task for a lifetime to play BWV 996.
I've been working on it for years as well - had all but the Gigue to a point where I was pretty happy with them (on a good day!), but eventually ran out of motivation for the Gigue, so I've given it a rest for a while. Might get back to it when I've finished the current projects (Prelude from PFA, and La Maja de Goya)

James
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Re: Bach Lute Suite in E Minor

Post by zupfgeiger » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:27 pm

The Gigue is a hell of a piece, and even the greatest masters have huge respect for it. As far as I recall Segovia only played the Allemande, the Bouree and the Sarabande of BWV 996 - he knew why. Particularly the second part of the Gigue is a challenge I probably will never ever master completely. The Presto is not much easier, but exactly as you said, James, on good days I play it fairly well.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started (Mark Twain)

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Giovanni Tacchi, Daniel Friederich copy, cedar/EIR, 2017
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