High Saddle on Ramirez 130

Discussion of all aspects of early instruments, lutes, theorbos, vihuelas, Renaissance guitars and Baroque guitars.
apark1980
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:15 pm

High Saddle on Ramirez 130

Post by apark1980 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:37 pm

Hi all

I was recently looking at Ramirez 130 años in a guitar shop, and noticed the action seemed very high. On closer inspection, this seemed to be due to the height of the saddle. An eyeball comparison with other guitars in the shop seemed to confirm this - the saddle protruded further from the bridge than the other guitars. Is this a common thing for Ramirez guitars (maybe Ramirez owners will have some views on this)? Is it something a shop would be likely to adjust at point of purchase, or would you need to get it altered independently if you wanted it lower?

Thanks

Alan

apark1980
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:15 pm

Re: High Saddle on Ramirez 130

Post by apark1980 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:39 pm

Sorry, this has ended up in the wrong section somehow, I posted this on mobile. Moderators, can you move to the appropriate section when you get a spare moment? Thanks

Lovemyguitar
Posts: 2926
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:50 pm
Location: Canada

Re: High Saddle on Ramirez 130

Post by Lovemyguitar » Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:44 pm

The height of the saddle (and/or the amount it protrudes from the bridge) is not an accurate measure of action height, as there are other factors that will affect the overall string height. However, many guitars such as Ramirez do come from the factory with moderately high action, and this certainly can be adjusted at point of purchase: most shops will (or should!) do a "set-up" for you if you buy a guitar, which will include such things as lowering the saddle, should you desire it.

User avatar
RobMacKillop
Posts: 2057
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:24 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: High Saddle on Ramirez 130

Post by RobMacKillop » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:08 pm

Easier to lower than to raise, although I prefer a higher action, as it allows more control of vibrato. So, it's not necessarily a bad thing.

apark1980
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:15 pm

Re: High Saddle on Ramirez 130

Post by apark1980 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:52 pm

Interesting - wondered if it might be the case that some players prefer it that way. It's a nice guitar in many ways, though the height of the action put me off somewhat, so it's good to know changing this wouldn't be met with quizzical looks by the guitar techs!

Philosopherguy
Posts: 888
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:40 am
Location: Niagara, Ontario, Canada

Re: High Saddle on Ramirez 130

Post by Philosopherguy » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:45 am

Ramirez does tend to set their guitars up a little high from the factory. But, as has been mentioned, it's easier to lower the action than it is to raise it. So, likely it is done so that the point of sale can set up the action to the particular player. When I bought my Ramirez 130 the nut and the saddle were both lowered a little bit. After that, the action is absolutely perfect for me at around 4mm on the bass string and around 3mm on the treble.

Don't be afraid to ask them to set the guitar up if you plan on purchasing it.

To note though, I find the action at the nut is more important to "get right" rather then the saddle. You will feel much more tension in your playing with a high nut vs a high saddle and 12th fret action. But, get the tech to check both and set them up to your specifications.
*************************************************************
2013 Ramirez 130 Anos - Spruce
2013 Ramirez 4NE - Cedar
1998 Dean Harrington - Spruce
1977 Kuniharu Nobe - Spruce
1971 Yamaha GC3 - Spruce

apark1980
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:15 pm

Re: High Saddle on Ramirez 130

Post by apark1980 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:17 pm

Philosopherguy wrote:Ramirez does tend to set their guitars up a little high from the factory. But, as has been mentioned, it's easier to lower the action than it is to raise it. So, likely it is done so that the point of sale can set up the action to the particular player. When I bought my Ramirez 130 the nut and the saddle were both lowered a little bit. After that, the action is absolutely perfect for me at around 4mm on the bass string and around 3mm on the treble.

Don't be afraid to ask them to set the guitar up if you plan on purchasing it.

To note though, I find the action at the nut is more important to "get right" rather then the saddle. You will feel much more tension in your playing with a high nut vs a high saddle and 12th fret action. But, get the tech to check both and set them up to your specifications.
Thanks for the detailed advice, much appreciated. I'm kind of wavering between this and a Burguet 2m at the moment; I need to get more playing time with both first, having only briefly played each - the Ramirez in cedar and burguet in spruce, which isn't particularly instructive as a comparison

User avatar
jmardinly
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat May 14, 2016 7:18 pm
Location: Chandler, Arizona

Re: High Saddle on Ramirez 130

Post by jmardinly » Sat May 14, 2016 11:20 pm

Changing a saddle ain't rocket science. Learn to do it yourself if you really want it to be how YOU want it. A tech in a shop is NEVER going to set it up exactly the way YOU want it, unless you have the tech living with you and available 'round the clock to make multiple iterations. In addition, the saddle height may change with the seasons, so you may want to have several saddles, or just shim it if it gets too low. The only real barrier would be if the body is too warped such that even with the saddle removed, the strings are too high. In that case, the bridge would need to be modified, and for that, you need a good luthier.
1966 Manuel Velazquez guitar; 1970 David Rubio lute.

DanielIndo
Posts: 264
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:55 am
Location: Surabaya Indonesia

Re: High Saddle on Ramirez 130

Post by DanielIndo » Sun May 15, 2016 12:10 am

Philosopherguy wrote:Ramirez does tend to set their guitars up a little high from the factory. But, as has been mentioned, it's easier to lower the action than it is to raise it. So, likely it is done so that the point of sale can set up the action to the particular player. When I bought my Ramirez 130 the nut and the saddle were both lowered a little bit. After that, the action is absolutely perfect for me at around 4mm on the bass string and around 3mm on the treble.

Don't be afraid to ask them to set the guitar up if you plan on purchasing it.

To note though, I find the action at the nut is more important to "get right" rather then the saddle. You will feel much more tension in your playing with a high nut vs a high saddle and 12th fret action. But, get the tech to check both and set them up to your specifications.
Philosopherguy is right, IMO Ramirez also have excellent playability in very low saddle (because my preowned 1a has very low saddle), but I cannot use low tension trebles, it's OK. Still very loud and "sings". When I try some new Ramirez, they also set with higher saddle, no problem as well, still beautiful sound. Enjoy the Ramirez. Regards from Indonesia. Daniel
2005 Jose Ramirez 1a Sakurai Kohno Special 2015
2005 Amalio Burguet 1F
2001 Juan Hernandez Maestro
2009 Loriente Angela
2011 Yamaha GC41
2015 Yamaha NCX2000FM

Smith
Posts: 1321
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:17 am

Re: High Saddle on Ramirez 130

Post by Smith » Wed May 18, 2016 7:27 pm

I have a Ramirez 125 annos. Action is a little high. Don't mind. Interesting comment about vibrato. Might get the action lowered some day.

I have a spruce top also. I switch back and forth when I change strings. The Ramirez often sounds "boomy" to me at first, after playing the spruce top. Then I don't notice it after a while.

Don't notice the difference in action anymore, kind of forgot about it.

Cp40carl
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:10 pm

Re: High Saddle on Ramirez 130

Post by Cp40carl » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:35 pm

I have a Ramirez 4E and have played on a 1A; both have quite a high action compared to other classical guitars although this is typical of Ramirez. Having said as much, if you are not used to it then may well be worth persevering as they have a very beautiful and distinctive sound and you will probably adjust your playing to the new string height in no time.

Return to “Lutes, Baroque and Renaissance Guitars, etc.”