Scale length of Bream's 1951 Goff lute?

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jmardinly
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Re: Scale length of Bream's 1951 Goff lute?

Postby jmardinly » Mon May 16, 2016 5:12 pm

David starbuc2 wrote:When Bream played a concert at Ohio State University back in the mid-70s he played the Rubio lute and the Romanillos guitar. After the concert I got to see both side by side. The Rubio scale was definately shorter but not by a whole lot. Didn't think to have a measuring tape with me. I'd guess it was probably around 630-640ish. I think the Goff lute was made from one of those old German Guitarlutes where he hacked off the neck and put on a wider one. The Rubio lute was a major improvement. I'd love to build one like that, but I'd be burned at the stake by the LSA and the HIP folks.
-David



My 1970 Rubio is 65 cm exactly. I had a student who bought one two years earlier which was identical.
1966 Manuel Velazquez guitar; 1970 David Rubio lute.

jmardinly
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Re: Scale length of Bream's 1951 Goff lute?

Postby jmardinly » Mon May 16, 2016 5:15 pm

David starbuc2 wrote:When Bream played a concert at Ohio State University back in the mid-70s he played the Rubio lute and the Romanillos guitar. After the concert I got to see both side by side. The Rubio scale was definately shorter but not by a whole lot. Didn't think to have a measuring tape with me. I'd guess it was probably around 630-640ish. I think the Goff lute was made from one of those old German Guitarlutes where he hacked off the neck and put on a wider one. The Rubio lute was a major improvement. I'd love to build one like that, but I'd be burned at the stake by the LSA and the HIP folks.
-David


"My 1970 Rubio is 65cm exactly. I had a student with one from 2 years earlier that was identical."
1966 Manuel Velazquez guitar; 1970 David Rubio lute.

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Charles Mokotoff
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Re: Scale length of Bream's 1951 Goff lute?

Postby Charles Mokotoff » Mon May 16, 2016 7:03 pm

Scot Tremblay wrote:This might be the one in question. Scroll to near the bottom for dimensional details.

http://www.briancohenguitars.com/sale/breamlute.html


This is fascinating, I have always loved these old lutes. When I click the link at the end of the article for photos, I get an error. :cry:

Scot Tremblay
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Re: Scale length of Bream's 1951 Goff lute?

Postby Scot Tremblay » Mon May 16, 2016 8:32 pm

Charles Mokotoff wrote:This is fascinating, I have always loved these old lutes. When I click the link at the end of the article for photos, I get an error. :cry:


I guess it is a pretty old posting as the inter-web goes (2012) so I suspect they have been taken down, maybe at buyers request? I remember seeing this post a while back when I was looking for some info on Breams lutes.
Scot Tremblay Guitars

"One picture is worth a thousand words. So, for me, one good note put where it should be put, will say what it will take some people many notes to say. ~B.B. King, 1986

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Michael.N.
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Re: Scale length of Bream's 1951 Goff lute?

Postby Michael.N. » Mon May 16, 2016 8:41 pm

That's interesting. I think I saw that Goff lute in the Early Music Shop. Didn't take much notice of it, there were other interesting historical instruments and I didn't for one moment think it had the connection with Bream. I've seen a number of similar types of lutes that were made in the 60's and 70's. They tend to be on the heavy side in comparison to later copies of lutes. I did see Bream playing the lute in the 80's. I wasn't sat close enough to see which lute it was. I just assumed it was the Rubio. Whatever it was it didn't have the volume/projecting power of his guitar. Given that it was in a large auditorium (some 2500 people) it didn't do bad. It would be of interest to know what tension he strung it at. I guess it would be nearer to a modern guitar than a lute proper, perhaps 5 Kg tension. I doubt it was at lute tension.
Historicalguitars.

Scot Tremblay
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Re: Scale length of Bream's 1951 Goff lute?

Postby Scot Tremblay » Mon May 16, 2016 9:06 pm

Michael.N. wrote:...They tend to be on the heavy side in comparison to later copies of lutes....


Be careful in which company you mention that "fact". A couple years ago, I was severely reprimanded for saying that very thing on a lute forum. Apparently the heavy ones are not the norm...I don't know, I wasn't really into lute until the later 1970s but I have seen some of the heavy, metal fretted, guitar bridged monsters...

There is a little more info here on Breams lute, from Richard Brune.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101433&hilit=breams+lute&start=15#p1081632
Scot Tremblay Guitars

"One picture is worth a thousand words. So, for me, one good note put where it should be put, will say what it will take some people many notes to say. ~B.B. King, 1986

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Michael.N.
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Re: Scale length of Bream's 1951 Goff lute?

Postby Michael.N. » Mon May 16, 2016 10:47 pm

Well I certainly haven't seen them all by any stretch, just some that have turned up in the Early music shop. Apart from the cheap modern lutes the luthier made lutes are pretty much all very lightly built. I guess the amount of information available to builders today is just so much better than it was in the 60's.
I see that Bream did indeed string his lute with very high tension strings. Kind of puts it into a lute guitar category. . . or is it guitar lute.
Historicalguitars.

Scot Tremblay
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Re: Scale length of Bream's 1951 Goff lute?

Postby Scot Tremblay » Mon May 16, 2016 10:58 pm

Yes, now they are very light, except for the cheap ones as you say. All mine are anyways. But I guess back in the middle of the last century that wasn't always the case...

I think the term might be "Gulute" after the urban slang "Galute/galoot" meaning a person (usually a man) who is large, oafish, lazy and fat...seems kind of appropriate... :wink:
Scot Tremblay Guitars

"One picture is worth a thousand words. So, for me, one good note put where it should be put, will say what it will take some people many notes to say. ~B.B. King, 1986


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