Renaissance Lute

Discussion of all aspects of early instruments, lutes, theorbos, vihuelas, Renaissance guitars and Baroque guitars.
Moderndandy

Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Moderndandy » Thu May 23, 2013 1:20 am

Thanks I emailed the guy for some more specifics on it. I guess this is the type of thing you just need to buy blindly and ship across

Scot Tremblay
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Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Scot Tremblay » Thu May 23, 2013 3:33 am

I just had another look at the photos. I didn't realize it was a student lute. It looks like it has an ebony veneered neck, ebony binding and fingerboard. Not what one usually sees on student models.

There's not that many lute makers who do a student model so knowing who made it would be helpful. Let us know what he says and where the lute is.
Scot Tremblay Guitars

"One picture is worth a thousand words. So, for me, one good note put where it should be put, will say what it will take some people many notes to say. ~B.B. King, 1986

Moderndandy

Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Moderndandy » Thu May 23, 2013 11:47 am

Thanks Scot,
The Lute is in Sophia Bulgaria and it was made by the local maker Christo Georgiev in 2005.
Doesn't the peg box look different from photo's 2 to 3?

Thanks for your help. Much appreciated.

Richard

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Michael.N.
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Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Michael.N. » Thu May 23, 2013 12:15 pm

That's just the lighting. Of course you will have to take into account shipping/insurance and customs charges. I guess the next question is how does it play and sound, although I've no reason to think that it will play badly. 1200 euro with hard case and that level of decoration/features is a lot more than you would get with your standard student instrument. With Lutes you get more for your bucks. I once thought of becoming a Lute maker, that is until I realised the amount of work and the relatively low financial return.
Historicalguitars.

Moderndandy

Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Moderndandy » Thu May 23, 2013 1:40 pm

Michael,
I still think its probably a good deal as it will come in under 2k with shipping and tariff.
Richard

Scot Tremblay
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Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Scot Tremblay » Thu May 23, 2013 3:48 pm

Michael.N. wrote:...I once thought of becoming a Lute maker, that is until I realised the amount of work and the relatively low financial return.


And so you took up guitar making??? You're crazier than at first appears...wait a minute, I'm a guitar maker!!!??? :shock:

Yea, I with you on that Michael. I made a lute and a half (the 1/2 is still hanging on my shop wall 15 years later) only to realize in a big hurry "A man's got to know his limitations."

OK, enough jokes, back to lutes:

I'm vaguely familiar with the work of Christo Georgiev. I think Bulgarian lutenist Yavor Genov plays his lutes. See here: It looks like it might be that very lute on the album cover.

http://lutegroup.ning.com/profiles/blog ... nt%3A90916
Scot Tremblay Guitars

"One picture is worth a thousand words. So, for me, one good note put where it should be put, will say what it will take some people many notes to say. ~B.B. King, 1986

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Michael.N.
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Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Michael.N. » Thu May 23, 2013 5:11 pm

That's a little odd. I've made 1 1/2 Lutes as well! The first one was started around 1985 (ish). I had the bowl done and the neck attached but I abandoned it because the bowl had turned out to be really asymmetric. I can't remember what I did with it but it didn't survive. If you think that books/instructional material for Guitar making was thin on the ground in the mid '80's for Lutes it was virtually non existent. I used a little booklet (pamphlet more like) that was released by the Lute society. It was a mouldless method. Given my distinct lack of experience and near zero access to information I'm at a loss how I managed to get so far on with it!
The second attempt was much easier. I think I built it in 2002. Of course by then the internet was cooking away and Lundberg had wrote his articles/books. This time I used a skeleton mould. I was intending to keep it but not long after completing it I took it to the Early Music Shop and (astonishingly) two months later it had sold. Then again it wasn't pitched at a Professionals price. I think it was all built to a very high spec apart from the Rose, which did show a lack of experience/refinement.
Historicalguitars.

Scot Tremblay
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Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Scot Tremblay » Thu May 23, 2013 5:32 pm

That is funny...because that's almost my story. Maybe we're brothers from another Mother.

I made my first one from an article in some magazine. The mold was an interesting contraption with one segment (like an orange wedge) which rotated on a pivot. You attached the neck and end blocks to the form, pipe bend the rib, place it on the form segment, trim the shape, glue it in place at the two blocks and move on to the next rib. It worked really well except...the shape of the bowl was round, no flattening in the back as was common on the originals.

The next one I did free hand and got most of my info from the Lundberg book. The bowl turned out really nice but I stopped there. So it hangs on my wall to remind me why I don't make lutes. Some day I might finish it.
Scot Tremblay Guitars

"One picture is worth a thousand words. So, for me, one good note put where it should be put, will say what it will take some people many notes to say. ~B.B. King, 1986

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Michael.N.
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Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Michael.N. » Thu May 23, 2013 6:01 pm

I've come across that type of mould but just can't remember where I've seen it. Zachary Taylor wrote a Lute construction book sometime in the '80's so it may have been in his book. Anyway the half circle Lute bowl is fine. Some of the originals (Venere?) are virtually that. I think Lundberg states that they are flattened by 5%. That small amount could be due to father time and distortion.

Here's the one that I made:

Image

Image

Image

and the so so Rose:

Image

At least I didn't resort to sanding sticks. Perhaps I should have.
I also have Van Edwards Baroque Lute plans that I bought 6 or 7 years ago. I think it's a 13 course. One day I might actually use them.
Historicalguitars.

Moderndandy

Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Moderndandy » Thu May 23, 2013 8:54 pm

Scot Tremblay wrote:[OK, enough jokes, back to lutes:

I'm vaguely familiar with the work of Christo Georgiev. I think Bulgarian lutenist Yavor Genov plays his lutes. See here: It looks like it might be that very lute on the album cover.

http://lutegroup.ning.com/profiles/blog ... nt%3A90916


Interesting enough that's the guy I emailed, Yavor.

I'm just worried this is some type of scam, It sounds to good to be true.

Scot Tremblay
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Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Scot Tremblay » Fri May 24, 2013 1:34 am

I suppose there is always that worry but I kind of doubt it in this case. Yavor is legit (I know him from Lute Group)and if that's his lute then I'd say it's legit.

Maybe PM Alexandru (Marian), he's one our luthiers here on delcamp and is in Bucharest, Romania, I believe. I know it's a different country but it's right next door so maybe Alex has heard of Christo Georgiev and can tell you something about him and his work. The luthier community is pretty small all over the world so you never know, Alex might even know Christo.
Scot Tremblay Guitars

"One picture is worth a thousand words. So, for me, one good note put where it should be put, will say what it will take some people many notes to say. ~B.B. King, 1986

Scot Tremblay
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:18 pm
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Scot Tremblay » Fri May 24, 2013 1:46 am

Michael.N. wrote:I've come across that type of mould but just can't remember where I've seen it. Zachary Taylor wrote a Lute construction book sometime in the '80's so it may have been in his book. Anyway the half circle Lute bowl is fine. Some of the originals (Venere?) are virtually that. I think Lundberg states that they are flattened by 5%. That small amount could be due to father time and distortion.

I also have Van Edwards Baroque Lute plans that I bought 6 or 7 years ago. I think it's a 13 course. One day I might actually use them.


I don't mind the half circle bowl. My Venere 8 course is pretty much a half circle and I like it a lot. If I were to make another lute that's the bowl shape I'd use. But as you get into the big archlutes, theorbos and such it helps to have a flatter back I think...although I have played a archlute based on the C45 Magno dieffopruchar and it's an awesome design.

I don't remember the author of the article but I'm sure it wasn't Zachary Taylor. And it wasn't from a book but an English language magazine I picked up on my travels in Europe.

All this lute talk is making me want to finish off the bowl on the wall...better get back to making my guitars or I'll be going down that slipery slope. :?

BTW Michael, that's a great looking lute. Especially if that's your first effort! :bravo:
Scot Tremblay Guitars

"One picture is worth a thousand words. So, for me, one good note put where it should be put, will say what it will take some people many notes to say. ~B.B. King, 1986

Moderndandy

Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Moderndandy » Fri May 24, 2013 1:54 am

Scot Tremblay wrote:I suppose there is always that worry but I kind of doubt it in this case. Yavor is legit (I know him from Lute Group)and if that's his lute then I'd say it's legit.

Maybe PM Alexandru (Marian), he's one our luthiers here on delcamp and is in Bucharest, Romania, I believe. I know it's a different country but it's right next door so maybe Alex has heard of Christo Georgiev and can tell you something about him and his work. The luthier community is pretty small all over the world so you never know, Alex might even know Christo.


Yeah, I've seen his album and heard it. I would have to trust his judgment on the Lute. I'm sure it would be good first instrument.

Scot, I wonder could you confirm his email? Sorry, maybe overcautious but I'd hate to send 2k to Bulgaria and wind up with nothing.

You guys have been great thanks for your help.

Scot Tremblay
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Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Scot Tremblay » Fri May 24, 2013 2:51 am

I don't have his private email but I just contacted him through the Lute group PM application so I'll see what he says. He did post the same lute for sale over there so I'm sure it was/is his. He hasn't posted otherwise so it must still be. I think you need to be a member to see some of the content or I'd link to his page.

His web page is here and the same lute is in the photos he's posted:

http://www.yavorgenov.eu/

Here's what he says about it over there:

8 course renaissance lute (2005) for sale.
Model based on Venere (Vienna C 36).
Materials:
Sound board: european spruce; Back: 9 maple ribs; Neck veneered in ebony; Pegs: almond-tree
The string length is 58 cm.
The distance at the nut: 6 cm, at the bridge: 10 cm.
Maker is Georgiev.

The Venere C36 is a good design, a bit larger body than most for the time period, usually lot of volume and good carrying power. For renaissance lutes it's pretty much the only body I play. Many student lutes are based on Frei or Gerle which are smaller bodies and harder for many CG players to hold but the Venere C36 is much better I think. I love mine.

The dimensions he gives for the nut and bridge are good. The bridge string width is prefered by players who do not use the thumb under technique although thumb under players can be found using the narrower bridge....I think you would like the spacing if you use a more guitar technique. String length puts it directly in the G tuning range. Mine is 64cm which means I usually tune to F# or a little under. If you plan on playing Dowland you will appreciate the 58cm string length, or at least your left hand will :wink:

Not trying to talk you into it, just some comments on the information given.
Scot Tremblay Guitars

"One picture is worth a thousand words. So, for me, one good note put where it should be put, will say what it will take some people many notes to say. ~B.B. King, 1986

Moderndandy

Re: Renaissance Lute

Postby Moderndandy » Fri May 24, 2013 3:27 am

Yeah that sounds perfect, Im definitely into dowland and would not use thumb under technique.

Again thanks so much


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