Those German lute-guitars

Discussion of all aspects of early instruments, lutes, theorbos, vihuelas, Renaissance guitars and Baroque guitars.
soltirefa
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Re: Those German lute-guitars

Post by soltirefa » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:44 pm

Michael.N. wrote:In some part that lack of over ringing may well be due to string type. Wound Gut or the Aquila synthetic D/DE type can sound pretty dull in comparison to modern silver plated Nylon types.
Maybe I'll try those strings on my 10-string to see if it does offer less over-ringing. Thanks for mentioning it.

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Charles Mokotoff
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Re: Those German lute-guitars

Post by Charles Mokotoff » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:53 am

I am quite pleased with the sound of my heavy lute, made in 1977 by Manouk Papazian. If I had the luxury of tuning it in F (I am playing in ensembles so have to keep it at G) I am sure it would permit a thicker top string and be easier to tune, with less tension on the rollers:
http://youtu.be/SAaNcNaWPcI

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David_Norton
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Re: Those German lute-guitars

Post by David_Norton » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:15 pm

Nice recording Charles.

I think that for many of us "of a certain age", the heavy lute timbre was ingrained in our ears early on as being the correct sound.

Here's a VERY interesting paper (36 pages downloaded) about the various types of modern-day vihuelas, starting with the instrument built in guitar-style by Francisco Simplicio for Pujol, to the lute-influenced designs of the 1980s-90s, to the more recent builds which are divergent from the "vihuela shaped lute" models.

http://www.academia.edu/5804888/The_Cha ... he_Vihuela
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT

Scot Tremblay
Luthier
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Re: Those German lute-guitars

Post by Scot Tremblay » Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:30 pm

Thanks for posting that, David. I always enjoy John Griffiths papers.
Scot Tremblay Guitars

"One picture is worth a thousand words. So, for me, one good note put where it should be put, will say what it will take some people many notes to say. ~B.B. King, 1986

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sxedio
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Re: Those German lute-guitars

Post by sxedio » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:58 am

There are older german editions of music explicitly for these lutes, or for either lute or guitar, an example from IGRA http://digital-library.csun.edu/cdm/ref ... res/id/698
(Gr) (En) (very little Fr)

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kertsopoulos
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Re: Those German lute-guitars

Post by kertsopoulos » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:15 pm

On a scalloped fingerboard the fingers never touch the fingerboard but only the string, behind the fret. On a normal fingerboard the string is pressed on the fingerboard by the finger and the finger touches the fingerboard, transmitting the heat of the human body to the colder environment of the fingerboard. The denser the fingerboard wood the faster is the transmittance of the heat from the finger to the fingerboard, hence an ebony fingerboard which is denser (and also colder) than a rosewood fingerboard will have a more immediate effect of the phenomenon. This transmittance of heat from the finger to the fingerboard added to the effect of touhing, which by itself cancels out topical vibrations on the surface of the fingerboard at the touching point of the finger, serves to give an extra warmth to the timbre of the sound, cancelling however many harmonics that would have given the sound an extra brilliance and a very full attack on the sound. So, on a normal fingerboard by the above function we gain warmth to the timbre of the sound and we lose on brilliance and attack. Contrary then to this function, on a scalloped fingerboard, since our fingers never touch the fingerboard, we gain brilliance on the sound and a very good attack on the sound, however we lose on the warmth of the timbre of the sound. In both cases and in each one seperately, one wins something and loses on something else. Once you know these details you can arrange as a luthier and as a guitarist all your other factors accordingly to get the desirable balance for your specific needs. Nice topic, keep well, Yorgos.

Butterfingers
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Re: Those German lute-guitars

Post by Butterfingers » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:35 pm

Hi. I recently registered on this board since i have a ton of questions. Now, I'm an amateur so pardon my limited knowledge.

Anyway, one of my questions has to do with this topic since i recently got a hold of one of these wandervogel lutes. That's what it looks like to me at least (after some googling). First question: Is there a surefire way of determining whether an old (plucked) instrument is meant for steel or nylon strings? Second: If one is made for steel strings, what are the ramifications of using nylon on it?

Lovemyguitar
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Re: Those German lute-guitars

Post by Lovemyguitar » Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:51 am

Butterfingers wrote:...one of my questions has to do with this topic since i recently got a hold of one of these wandervogel lutes. That's what it looks like to me at least (after some googling). First question: Is there a surefire way of determining whether an old (plucked) instrument is meant for steel or nylon strings? Second: If one is made for steel strings, what are the ramifications of using nylon on it?
Putting nylon strings on it should be fine, regardless of what it originally had. The main thing is to never put steel strings on an instrument if it was built for nylon (or gut), because the increased string tension of steel strings could destroy it. If your wandervogel lute is very old, it may well have had gut strings originally (nylon strings weren't invented until the mid 1940s).

Butterfingers
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Re: Those German lute-guitars

Post by Butterfingers » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:11 am

Thanks for the reply. I have no idea how old mine is. Don't know if there are any signs to look for in that regard either? One thing's for sure, it needs some work. Some glue here and there between the back "plates", bridge repair (replacement more likely), neck sanding etc.

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