The phrasing he suggests seems wrong?

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R.V.S.
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Re: The phrasing he suggests seems wrong?

Postby R.V.S. » Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:36 pm

Did anyone catch the comment on that video where he suggests only using a metronome for scales, arpeggios, and other technique exercises, and not on pieces themselves? I hate to criticize, but that is just plain bad advice.

Regarding his suggestion, I think it's worth exploring on long, fast, ascending/descending runs (so it's no surprise that he heard it from a pianist), but not on a melodic line. The melody itself should feel natural, and it's not a "rule" that he's challenging. I don't even think it's cultural or traditional. I think it's human nature. Our voices naturally get louder as they get higher.

Nevertheless, it's an interesting thought.

Polifemo de Oro

Re: The phrasing he suggests seems wrong?

Postby Polifemo de Oro » Thu Dec 10, 2015 5:03 pm

R.V.S. wrote:Regarding his suggestion, I think it's worth exploring on long, fast, ascending/descending runs (so it's no surprise that he heard it from a pianist), but not on a melodic line. The melody itself should feel natural, and it's not a "rule" that he's challenging. I don't even think it's cultural or traditional. I think it's human nature. Our voices naturally get louder as they get higher.

Nevertheless, it's an interesting thought.


You bring up a good point. An approach such as this would not always be "wrong," as it is in this particular example. I think of a piece such as Debussy's L'isle Joyeuse in which he writes these beautiful ascending arpeggios that reach climaxes marked pp. There are many other such instances.

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Tonyyyyy
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Re: The phrasing he suggests seems wrong?

Postby Tonyyyyy » Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:03 pm

R.V.S. wrote:...The melody itself should feel natural, and it's not a "rule" that he's challenging. I don't even think it's cultural or traditional. I think it's human nature. Our voices naturally get louder as they get higher. ..


On guitar (at least mine) the sonority tends to get louder as it gets lower. It sings in a different way.

Not to say we cant imitate the voice and perhaps get louder with higher notes

Jeffrey Armbruster
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Re: The phrasing he suggests seems wrong?

Postby Jeffrey Armbruster » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:23 pm

Polifemo de Oro wrote:So, you see, there are reasons in the end for political correctness. In the old days this was simply knowns as having a sense of discretion, taste, and propriety.

+1
It's sort of sad that people have to be reminded of this in our current bloodthirsty political season.
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Lawler
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Re: The phrasing he suggests seems wrong?

Postby Lawler » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:54 pm

Someone wise said, "talking about music is like dancing about architecture".

Perhaps Tarrega had a similar mindset, given the fact that he didn't write about music. I'd be willing to bet that Tarrega would have been open to expressions of his music that were different than his own. But I doubt he would be interested in a lecture about a piece of his, such as Allen Matthew's video here, unless it also had an expressively genuine performance of the piece that would leave him (and me) with a sense of "Nice! How had I never thought of that?".

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Yisrael van Handel
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Re: The phrasing he suggests seems wrong?

Postby Yisrael van Handel » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:44 pm

It's sort of sad that people have to be reminded of this in our current bloodthirsty political season.

Just for the record, I made the comment about political correctness before I knew anything about a presidential election in the USA. I would not make the comment today, knowing what is happening in America. No actual politics intended here. I think it is inappropriate for a non-American to comment on an American election.
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JohnB
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Re: The phrasing he suggests seems wrong?

Postby JohnB » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:06 pm

Interesting to read this oldish thread.

Although the reasoning in the video is deeply flawed there is something lurking in there. I think the idea of "reverse" crescendos/diminuendos in phrasing isn't at all valid and expressed as a general rule it is silly. But, sometimes, playing the peak of the phrase softer, when the expectation is that it will be louder, can be very effective indeed. Singers often do this. Personally, I sometimes do it when the "A" section of Lagrima returns.
Hermanos Conde 1968, Stephen Frith 2007 "Guijoso"

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Tonyyyyy
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Re: The phrasing he suggests seems wrong?

Postby Tonyyyyy » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:05 am

JohnB wrote:Interesting to read this oldish thread.

Although the reasoning in the video is deeply flawed there is something lurking in there. I think the idea of "reverse" crescendos/diminuendos in phrasing isn't at all valid and expressed as a general rule it is silly. But, sometimes, playing the peak of the phrase softer, when the expectation is that it will be louder, can be very effective indeed. Singers often do this. Personally, I sometimes do it when the "A" section of Lagrima returns.


Its not a bad idea to try the opposite of a recommendation. If only to confirm it . But occasionally a surprising effect does work.

And listening to singers' phrasing is a great idea. Thats what they do , whereas we guitarists tend to think more of technical matters.

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Re: The phrasing he suggests seems wrong?

Postby Jeffrey Armbruster » Wed Mar 09, 2016 4:49 am

Yisreal, just to be crystal clear, I didn't have you in mind when I wrote "people have to be reminded..." . I most definitely had people here in the states in mind.
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