John can respond directly, but:kampfgolem wrote:Thanks for sharing.
I have a couple questions. Please keep in mind I'm used to Jazz/functional analysis and classical is a whole new world to me.
1) In meas. 8, the chord is notated as Em7(b5)/Bb and is labeled a non-functional passing chord. Wouldn't this make more sense as a Bb dim triad serving leading to Em? I mean, that's what I hear, a diminished chord.
2) Why are the chords in measures 12 through 22 labeled as "tritones" instead of descending diminished 7 chords?
Are these conventions from classical analysis?
Perhaps I should've refrained from using the dreaded "C" word (classical) lol. I meant it more as "academic music". But yeah, I figure that much. To me, the analysis of a musical piece further serves as a way to more deeply understand its "aural logic" (or lack thereof). Also, I think it's important to try to "explain" something from an aural point of view -- ie. saying a jazz piece is made up of II-V-Is is rather pointless.stevel wrote: However it should also be noted that this is not a "classical" piece and is a post-tonal work. It does contain many traditional elements, but as you can see, there are non-functional progressions and "linear" chords, etc. (that happens in classical music too BTW).
Sometimes when people analyze, they're doing more than just simply "naming chords" which can only be but so informative. For example, I see John pointing out the interval of the 10th at the beginning, and bracketed when it appears. He's also showing with the dotted slurs, the countour of the melody line (and it's "directed motion" if you like).
D'oh, my bad. I wasn't looking at the actual score at that time and not having mastered the etude yet I completely forgot about that elusive A. It does have a particular sound that I don't relate to a half-diminished chord though. Just now I was trying it and the added 11 seems to kind of "even out" the dissonance, if it makes any sense.stevel wrote: There's actually an A and G present in the Em7b5/Bb chord (which is why he has "11" as well).
Bbo would have a Db rather than D. So it's not Bbo. You may be hearing a diminished sound, but that's produced by the E-G-Bb rather than Bb-Db-Fb (since there's no Db).
I am familiar with the use of a dim7 (I, like D. and John, assume you're talking about these, as half diminished chords would only yield pretty "regular" 9 chords) as a 7b9, but I hadn't looked at the progression like this. It really blew my mind. To me it's just the "easy part of the etude" lol.stevel wrote: So that progression sort of goes:
E7b9 - A7b9 - D7b9 - G7b9 - C7b9 - F7b9 - Bb7b9 - Eb7b9 - Ab7b9 - Db7b9 - F#7b9 - of course with the E pedals throughout.
Total brain fart sorry - I meant fully diminished (for some reason I was stuck on the earlier m7b5) - E - G#-B-D-F is the "rootless" 7b9 I was talking about.D.Cass wrote:Stevel, I was with you until you mentioned the descending chords as m7b5 acting as a rootless 7b9. I would argue that these are diminished chords. Jazz 101 a 7b9 is a full diminished chord played a half step above the root. We have G# D F B this would be a G# dim./G# half dim. would contain an F#. Using an E as a root would call an E9 if it were a m7b5.
Yep, brain fart. I think I was thinking "7b9" and the somewhat similar "7b5" stuck in my head!johnhall wrote:
I am sure Steve meant full-diminished seventh chords in the middle section rather than half-diminished.
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