Weiss on eleven strings

Discussion of all aspects of multi-string guitars, namely those with 7 or more strings.
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Alain Cloutier
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Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Alain Cloutier » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:12 pm

I just tried for fun that eleven string built in 1995 by Alain Bossé in Montreal. It was built like an alto but with a 640 mm string length.

Sorry for the poor quality of the video, I made it in an hotel room without a tripor or a music stand.


Youtube

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Big bird
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Big bird » Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:55 pm

As always, good stuff Alain... I enjoy hearing you play.
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Alain Cloutier
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Alain Cloutier » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:26 pm

I just received that text concerning that guitar:

"Alain Cloutier is playing this Weiss Sarabande on a 11-string guitar built by Alain Bossé in 1995. The instrument is based on the Swedish luthier Georg Bolin’s alto guitar developped in the 1960’s. The instrument has a regular classical guitar scale length of 650 mm as opposed to the 570 mm scale length generally used by the inventor Georg Bolin (1912-1993). The instrument is tuned in D minor (415 HZ) to play directly from lute tablatures therefore avoiding the use of complex transcriptions made for the modern classical guitar.

Woods used for the construction of Alain Bossé’s 11-string guitar are:
Dalbergia stevensonii (fretboard, bridge, back and sides)
Sitka spruce (soundboard)

Alain Bossé is a lutherie enthusiast based in Montreal, Canada."
Last edited by Alain Cloutier on Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Alain Cloutier
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Alain Cloutier » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:48 pm

Big bird wrote:As always, good stuff Alain... I enjoy hearing you play.
:merci:

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Muggins Simoon
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Muggins Simoon » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:56 pm

Excellent! Great playing and lovely guitar. I love Weiss and would like to move into an 11 string guitar in the future. Could someone please explain to me the tuning used here and other issues someone like me would need to know when first discovering the 11 string? Thank you
2011 Mathieu Trepanier Sitka/Koa
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Alain Cloutier
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Alain Cloutier » Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:15 pm

Muggins Simoon wrote:Excellent! Great playing and lovely guitar. I love Weiss and would like to move into an 11 string guitar in the future. Could someone please explain to me the tuning used here and other issues someone like me would need to know when first discovering the 11 string? Thank you
:merci:

If you are interested in playing Weiss on a multistring go for a 13 string instead as most of Weiss' music has been written for a 13 courses lute.

It's tuned like a baroque lute: f, d, a, f, d, a, g, f, e, d and c. With 13 strings you add the basses b and a .

You can hear me play a 13 strings here: viewtopic.php?f=112&t=103641

Emil Krasich
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Emil Krasich » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:32 pm

Great playing as always, Alain! I hope to get some of my progress recorded soon to share, but you will have to excuse wrong strings being hit and strings that don't always get damped. The Dresden is feeling more natural to me now but still requires such intense concentration.

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Muggins Simoon
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Muggins Simoon » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:34 pm

Ok, and pardon my ignorance, how do you read in those tunings? Do you basically read regular notation and relearn the fingerboard as you would say when you tune from low E to D? Question # 2: is the 13 string good for other Baruque music in addition to Weiss? And how about Lute such as Dowland? Thanks for your reply.
2011 Mathieu Trepanier Sitka/Koa
2000 Otto Vowinkel Concert Spruce/Brazilian
1998 Christopher Dean Spruce/Indian
1995 Richard Schneider Sequoia/Brazilian
1979 Dauphin Model 40 (Japan-signed label) Cedar/Indian

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Muggins Simoon
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Muggins Simoon » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:40 pm

Sorry, I missed the part about lute tablature. Is that like modern tablature for electric guitar by chance?
2011 Mathieu Trepanier Sitka/Koa
2000 Otto Vowinkel Concert Spruce/Brazilian
1998 Christopher Dean Spruce/Indian
1995 Richard Schneider Sequoia/Brazilian
1979 Dauphin Model 40 (Japan-signed label) Cedar/Indian

Emil Krasich
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Emil Krasich » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:56 pm

It's French tablature notation so yes like Dowland. The basses start getting notated differently as there are so many of them. The 11th through 13th strings are notated as 4, 5, and 6 rather than ////a, /////a, or //////a.

Oh yes, question 2. There are a great many composers that wrote for 13c baroque lute. Hagen, Falkenhagen, Blohm, Durant, Lauffensteiner, and Kohaut are a few examples. Dowland requires different tuning. You can certainly re-tune a 13 string, but I just prefer to play Renaissance music on a 6 string instead as all I have to do is tune down the 3rd string a half step to read from the notation (and make adjustments for the occasional 7th and 8th course.

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Alain Cloutier
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Alain Cloutier » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:08 pm

Emil Krasich wrote:Great playing as always, Alain! I hope to get some of my progress recorded soon to share, but you will have to excuse wrong strings being hit and strings that don't always get damped. The Dresden is feeling more natural to me now but still requires such intense concentration.
Thanks Emil!

As for hitting the right basses I use two different highlighters for the eighth and tenth strings. Sometimes a quick look for some big jumps of the thumb can save a lot of frustrations.

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Alain Cloutier
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Alain Cloutier » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:12 pm

Muggins Simoon wrote:Ok, and pardon my ignorance, how do you read in those tunings? Do you basically read regular notation and relearn the fingerboard as you would say when you tune from low E to D? Question # 2: is the 13 string good for other Baruque music in addition to Weiss? And how about Lute such as Dowland? Thanks for your reply.
When using the d minor tuning I play from the baroque lute tabs. It's actually quite easy to learn.

Go have a look at Richard Civiol site where there's a lot of lute tabs to download. Baroque and Renaissance as well. He still offer the complete Weiss, Dresden manuscript for free.

Emil Krasich
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Emil Krasich » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:24 pm

Alain Cloutier wrote: As for hitting the right basses I use two different highlighters for the eighth and tenth strings. Sometimes a quick look for some big jumps of the thumb can save a lot of frustrations.

I'll definitely give that a try. When I studied with John Schneiderman, he always recommended never looking at the basses which has helped me quite a bit but sneaking a peak here and there certainly won't hurt.

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Alain Cloutier
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by Alain Cloutier » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:20 pm

Emil Krasich wrote:
Alain Cloutier wrote: As for hitting the right basses I use two different highlighters for the eighth and tenth strings. Sometimes a quick look for some big jumps of the thumb can save a lot of frustrations.

I'll definitely give that a try. When I studied with John Schneiderman, he always recommended never looking at the basses which has helped me quite a bit but sneaking a peak here and there certainly won't hurt.
I used some green highlights on the score too where I might need to look at my right hand.
IMG_0225.jpg
Even Nigel North seems to look at his thumb quite often! Great playing by the way!


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spanishguitarmusic
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Re: Weiss on eleven strings

Post by spanishguitarmusic » Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:16 am

:bravo: Amazing! Very nice sounding on that eleven string guitar. I love that early music. :merci: for posting this video!

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