request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range players

Discussion of all aspects of multi-string guitars, namely those with 7 or more strings.
jack_cat
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:18 pm
Location: Latin America

request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range players

Postby jack_cat » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:28 am

Brahms guitar specs, and comments from other extended range players, please:
I have searched Delcamp before for info along this line of inquiry and will continue to read the many peripherally related posts on extended range guitars. But please allow me to put my own questions all together in one place.

I now play a seven string tuned BEADGBE with a 65 cm string length and 9 mm string spacing (at nut). My seven string has Peghed tuners, and I love them. Spruce and Granadillo, by Salvador Castillo. I love the thing and have played a couple of hundred gigs on it in the last year. Having an extra bass string with the same fourth-down relationship as the other basses gives me enormously extended bass line capacity and makes much more logical sense to me personally than, say, a low D, or a low A as in George Van Eps, or than a series of diatonic unfretted basses. I use a condensor mic and a PA with various EQ and feedback reduction devices. I cringe at the thought of putting a pickup in it.

(I don't play any classical repertory, will never play SL Weiss for a living or anything else that academic classical guitarists do, so I am chiefly interested in what I can do that is new on the instrument, although I do dabble in classical music and ancient music theory as a serious hobby.)

I am considering commissioning an 8-string "Brahms Guitar" with fanned frets to be tuned BEADGBEA.
Before doing this, I am most interested in hearing from owners of Brahms guitars about your experiences, the specifications of the guitars you have, (and of the guitars you might have wished you had once you had plunked down a few thousand monetary units for the one you have) - most specifically about string lengths, spacing of strings (affecting ability to barre across the entire fingerboard?) difficulties and experiences with finding appropriate strings, the relative angles of the bridge and nut, tuners. Woods, yes, problems with the unusual construction and design, whether you use the end pin and the upright position, etc.

I should mention that I have indeed considered an "Alto Guitar" type, that is a type of what used to be called "Harp Guitar" with 11 or 13 strings and a fretted string length of about 58 cm with "many" diatonic bass strings along side. The "Brahms" design seems to me somewhat more appealing on aesthetic grounds, but I could be pursuaded on some practical grounds to switch horses, and am interested in the comments of those who have gone for the "Alto" or "Dresden" type designs as well. It is, on the whole, not my intention to go into Baroque Dm tuning, but the fact that the Brahms guitar makes the Renaissance repertory more accessible is a plus. Tuning difficulties on stage being as they are, I am inclined to think that 8 strings might multiply tuning issues less than 13 strings... your comments? I have been to some pains to get my seven string tempered to my satisfaction, with adjustments to individual strings lengths at both nut and saddle per the system proposed by Greg Byers.

For professional purposes, that which brings in the bread, I play only arrangements of popular music and occasional original pieces, and my main purpose is simply to get more notes under my fingers. Naturally I am a great admirer of Paul Galbraith; I am not about competing with him on his turf, but he is one of my favorite musicians to listen to. Part of the deal for me with listening to other guitarists is that the 6 string repertory has been burned over and scraped to the bone too darned many times, and I don't even hear any new tonal combinations even when the music is unfamiliar. However, Galbraith has a very interesting sound and is a very interesting musician to boot. Do I digress? Sorry. I also did play in an upright position for a few years, in public... but I abandoned it. I am strongly considering NOT putting an end pin and playing my proposed Brahms guitar in the trad classical position which I use with my seven-string, footstool and all.

Anyway, grateful for your comments. Specs, please! String lengths and spacing! Bridge and Nut angles! Strings used!
Thanks, Jack

User avatar
James Lister
Moderator & Luthier
Moderator & Luthier
Posts: 6769
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:53 pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby James Lister » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:58 am

Not much to say - I've only ever played one, and haven't built one (yet), but I don't see any problem with playing a Brahms guitar in the "traditional" position. I think it's probably quite important to get the nut angle right - and the best angle is likely to vary depending on how you are holding the guitar (traditional or upright), so you probably need to be sure about this before fixing the spec.

James
James Lister, luthier, Sheffield UK

Lance Litchfield

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby Lance Litchfield » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:06 am

I can't help you with a Brahms guitar, but I did make this Alto recently. If you were anywhere near Musikmesse the owner will have it on display this year. It worked very well regarding tuning I believe. If you want to ask general questions about multi string guitars email my 10 and 11 string representative Peter Mony of Laudarra guitars
He has experience with a range of these kinds of instruments...I don't know much about fan fretted guitars but I can't imagine it would make tuning easier if that is something you are focused on. Normally my impression is that these guitars are set up fairly low which makes tuning a little simpler, as opposed to active instruments with high action in the classical world. I could be wrong here...

Image

jack_cat
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:18 pm
Location: Latin America

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby jack_cat » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:18 pm

James Lister wrote: I think it's probably quite important to get the nut angle right - and the best angle is likely to vary depending on how you are holding the guitar (traditional or upright), so you probably need to be sure about this before fixing the spec.

James


Thanks, James. This is a good point... that the appropriate nut angle might vary for different players and how each one holds the guitar.

The main issue here is first of all building a guitar with fanned frets, and there are plenty of people doing this with electric basses and with electric guitars, so perhaps I need to make some inquiries of those folks as well, since there are very few in the classical world. After the fanned fret issue, there are the minimum and maximum string lengths to decide on, which is a matter of the string technology.
A high "A" 440 is easy at about 54 centimeters and becomes impossible at more than about 58 cm, and the low B would be very nice and fat sounding at about 68 or 70 cm, and both of these parameters need to be adjusted towards each other as much as possible to minimize the fanning of the frets, and this is something that so far I am basically guessing at, and while I can certainly make some decent guesses and come up with some specifications from common sense, basing those in part on photos that are available on the internet, it's kind of an expensive guessing game, and I am not in a terrible hurry here... you know, that awful feeling, what if I invest a major wad of dough and don't like what I had built, oh #$:H!&??!

I actually have reasonable confidence in the luthier I have in mind, that whatever details I come up with he can carry out, and will leave the internal workings of bracing etc. to his best judgement, but I don't want my guesses on the external details to be too wild... I'll be chewing on this for a while. Maybe I will even find the opportunity to play somebody's Brahms guitar first, but that seems like a long shot... haven't spotted any elephants or unicorns in these parts lately either.

jack_cat
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:18 pm
Location: Latin America

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby jack_cat » Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:33 pm

Lance Litchfield wrote:I can't help you with a Brahms guitar, but I did make this Alto recently. If you were anywhere near Musikmesse the owner will have it on display this year. It worked very well regarding tuning I believe. If you want to ask general questions about multi string guitars email my 10 and 11 string representative Peter Mony of Laudarra guitars
He has experience with a range of these kinds of instruments...I don't know much about fan fretted guitars but I can't imagine it would make tuning easier if that is something you are focused on. Normally my impression is that these guitars are set up fairly low which makes tuning a little simpler, as opposed to active instruments with high action in the classical world. I could be wrong here...

Ah, that's a beautiful Alto, Lance. That's quite the extended armrest you have on it - would you like to comment on that? Have you build many of these?

What is the string length and how are you tuning it? And what string are you using for the highest pitched string (an A 440?) - that is, brand and material of the string?
Is there now a standard tuning for Altos or is it everybody's personal choice?

Re tuning - six or more non-linear tuning systems sided by side stretched on the procrustean bed of the frets - and then stretch it out in a fan - I would want some extra material in the saddle and nut so as to have something to cut on to make adjustments - and yes, as my consciousness about tuning has gradually increased over the years, I finally did realize that the higher the action, the more unpredictability due to the stretching of the strings, and so I have brought the action down on my guitars to about 3.3 mm at the 12th and now play more softly... in about 1973 the first thing my first teacher said to me was, "you're going to have to play louder than that if you're going to be heard in the back of a concert hall," and that sent me off on a path of many years of pounding on the guitar with super rest strokes and raising my actions up to almost 4 mm ... glad I finally got over that.

Jeremy Clark
Luthier
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:42 am
Location: Montreal, Quebec

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby Jeremy Clark » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:54 pm

I am a huge fan of multi-scale instruments and have build quite a few of them over the last couple of years. I think that there are some significant advantages to the idea and believe that even instruments with six strings can benefit

The angle of the nut/bridge on a multi-scale instrument is relative to the outside scale lengths and the position of the parallel fret so the answer to your "nut/bridge angle" question is... it depends.

I am pretty sure the original scale lengths on David Rubio's original were 615 and 650 and I think the parallel fret was the eighth or ninth (but I'm not in the shop just now to double check my notes).
52instruments.com
facebook.com/52instruments
instagram.com/52_instrument_co

User avatar
James Lister
Moderator & Luthier
Moderator & Luthier
Posts: 6769
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:53 pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby James Lister » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:05 am

Jeremy - just to clarify, the "parallel fret" is the one fret that is actually perpendicular to the centre line of the fingerboard? So the further up the fretboard the "parallel" fret is, the larger the angle at the nut, and hence the smaller the angle at the saddle.


jack_cat wrote: After the fanned fret issue, there are the minimum and maximum string lengths to decide on, which is a matter of the string technology.
A high "A" 440 is easy at about 54 centimeters and becomes impossible at more than about 58 cm, and the low B would be very nice and fat sounding at about 68 or 70 cm, and both of these parameters need to be adjusted towards each other as much as possible to minimize the fanning of the frets, and this is something that so far I am basically guessing at

I've been thinking about this, and even your "minimum" spread of 58cm to 68cm is a pretty big fan. I have come across one guitar with this much spread (albeit on a slightly longer scale, which makes the fan angle a bit less). It looks pretty extreme, with the nut and saddle angles looking something like 30 and 40 degrees respectively. You'd want to be sure that you could play an instrument like that comfortably before commissioning one!


James
James Lister, luthier, Sheffield UK

User avatar
mikfik
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:03 pm

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby mikfik » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:45 pm

Here is how I did it. Fan= 1st string - 630mm, 6th string - 670mm. I can tune the 1st string to high a with a Saverez .47mm (.0185inch) carbon string (available as a single string at "Strings by Mail") but I prefer to keep my 1st string as a normal high e. If I were to build for Paul Galbraith's tuning I would go with a 615mm for the 1st string.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Lance Litchfield

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby Lance Litchfield » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:30 am

jack_cat wrote:Ah, that's a beautiful Alto, Lance. That's quite the extended armrest you have on it - would you like to comment on that? Have you build many of these?

What is the string length and how are you tuning it? And what string are you using for the highest pitched string (an A 440?) - that is, brand and material of the string?
Is there now a standard tuning for Altos or is it everybody's personal choice?

Re tuning - six or more non-linear tuning systems sided by side stretched on the procrustean bed of the frets - and then stretch it out in a fan - I would want some extra material in the saddle and nut so as to have something to cut on to make adjustments - and yes, as my consciousness about tuning has gradually increased over the years, I finally did realize that the higher the action, the more unpredictability due to the stretching of the strings, and so I have brought the action down on my guitars to about 3.3 mm at the 12th and now play more softly... in about 1973 the first thing my first teacher said to me was, "you're going to have to play louder than that if you're going to be heard in the back of a concert hall," and that sent me off on a path of many years of pounding on the guitar with super rest strokes and raising my actions up to almost 4 mm ... glad I finally got over that.



Thanks Jack...no, this is my first, hopefully of many to come. It was undoubtedly the hardest guitar I have ever made, but it did turn out very well. Peter tells me it is "perfect" and wouldn't change a thing, which is good as he is very particular. I couldn't have done it without his specialist expertise, from which I have learnt a lot from. I found myself constantly having to go back to original calculations on the scales and measurements quite often as I would lose track of details, compared to the standard 6 string simplicity. Yes the arm rest is on the longer side...personal preference, and also to allow different seating and arm positions, given you never know who will play the guitar. This guitar is tuned 11-1, Bb C D Eb F G C F Bb D G. So the 1st not at A. The scales are based on 625.48 which is the best template for that scale I had for the slotting machine I used...the first 7 ended up 556 from memory. The longest 743 ish. The concept of these kinds of guitar from what I understand was designed around the use of normal guitar strings. The first 7 is like playing with a capo on the 3rd. Really though, there are no rules if someone was to experiment with different strings or tunings, it is just the market for this kind of instrument is classical/earlier music...talking to a friend in Sweden about his modern music and his archlute, he tells me modern composers love them, so why not the alto11 I think. I couldn't say if a different string would work but if you ever find a nice option let me know! It's only 2 frets from the standard G so you'd think it wouldn't be too much trouble.

Yes, fine tuning the tuning is tricky, and even changing brands of string or settling in of the guitar can cause issues. Like mentioned before, I don't have any direct experience with fan frets but when building I try to minimise variables I can't control where possible. Hence the use of a good fret slotting machine, sticking to the same strings etc. Keeping your action low would be one of those if I was able to. Sounds like you have a grasp on what works for you.

Jeremy Clark
Luthier
Posts: 289
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:42 am
Location: Montreal, Quebec

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby Jeremy Clark » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:22 pm

James Lister wrote:Jeremy - just to clarify, the "parallel fret" is the one fret that is actually perpendicular to the centre line of the fingerboard? So the further up the fretboard the "parallel" fret is, the larger the angle at the nut, and hence the smaller the angle at the saddle.


Absolutely. Deciding where to place the "perpendicular to the centre of the line of the fingerboard" fret in relations to the scale lengths is one of the elements that should be carefully considered. There are quite a few considerations that need to be pondered when building a multi-scale instruments... really slotting the board is the simple part.
52instruments.com
facebook.com/52instruments
instagram.com/52_instrument_co

jack_cat
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:18 pm
Location: Latin America

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby jack_cat » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:55 pm

Jeremy Clark wrote:There are quite a few considerations that need to be pondered when building a multi-scale instrument... really slotting the board is the simple part.

Thanks for that... so could you please continue to elaborate on the, er, less simple parts? Grateful for all info, thanks. Jack.

Actually this thread with only 9 posts so far is already doing pretty well with collecting the info I asked for, and thanks to all of you.

James Lister wrote:I've been thinking about this, and even your "minimum" spread of 58cm to 68cm is a pretty big fan. I have come across one guitar with this much spread (albeit on a slightly longer scale, which makes the fan angle a bit less). It looks pretty extreme, with the nut and saddle angles looking something like 30 and 40 degrees respectively. You'd want to be sure that you could play an instrument like that comfortably before commissioning one!
James


Right... I am still shooting in the dark and it is clear that I will have to start actually drawing some full-scale patterns for myself in order to get clear on realistic measurements. Then maybe paste them onto a guitar and sit and stare at the thing for a while. (To be clear, I am not going to build this myself.)

mikfik wrote:Here is how I did it. Fan= 1st string - 630mm, 6th string - 670mm. I can tune the 1st string to high a with a Saverez .47mm (.0185inch) carbon string (available as a single string at "Strings by Mail") but I prefer to keep my 1st string as a normal high e. If I were to build for Paul Galbraith's tuning I would go with a 615mm for the 1st string.


Thanks for the pic, Micfik! That's one very interesting instrument, a little like one of Picasso's guitars! As far as the angle of the fan, though, it seems fairly conservative compared to others I have seen photos of. Is this your main axe? How do you like playing on that angle? Interesting that you can get the Saverez .47 up to an "A" at 630mm - I was pretty sure that I tried this with a Seaguar .47mm string and it broke, but I will do the experiment again, and will test it at 615, too. I did a bunch of string tests a year and a half or so ago, but it's possible my memory is confused, so I will dig out my notes and check it all again.

Thanks again, all of you, and please keep the comments coming. Jack

Blkw
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:40 pm
Location: Marseille, FRANCE

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby Blkw » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:48 pm

Hello Jack Cat

I'm just a Froggie from Delcamp's French forum, but I'm struggling with a Brahms Guitar since two years, and can give you some information - even if my English isn't so clever, I understood about all your questioning . Concerning precise specs, I can only give those from MY guitar ; it works for me - so that I ordered an other one with the same . Meanwhile, even on my nasty Bartolex study model, playing 8str. is a fantastic musical experience , even if sound quality don't always follow your dreams …

I launched a table turn on the subject at Delcamp's Fr., that faded away for one year, but now bounces again with new members interested
Have first a glance here :
http://www.guitareclassiquedelcamp.com/ ... bb8656f263
and there for string specs :
http://www.guitareclassiquedelcamp.com/ ... 40&t=30518
(You can tell me about translation problems)
If you want a nearer approach - English - to the hardcore of 8str, try to follow a guy named Thraex 41 (from Galbraith's team) here :
http://www.guitarsalon.com/forums/showt ... hms+guitar

Anyway, ready to give you more details if interested, just tell me on the thread .

Blkw (alias skblz at Delcamp's France)
"Non Serviam"

Blkw
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:40 pm
Location: Marseille, FRANCE

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby Blkw » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:01 pm

Hi Jack.

You gave me the opportunity to put down my reflections about the 8-stringed sheep. Thanks fot that. On the French forum, they seemed less curious, or more silent . I'll do the same as you, putting everything altogether - later, if you want, I can be more accurate .

… Long time ago, I got the same 7-str. as yours, a marvel by Fanton d'Andon that I will always miss - I relapsed to the lute for 10 years… But even the bass B didn't allow me to escape from the hyper-formatted and scholar ghetto repertoire of classical guitar .
Then I discovered Galbraith's way, and was lucky to find my Bartolex on the net for bargain. And then I dropped again the lute, for the Brahms guitar amazed me and I think I'll keep it for a while - uh, I'm 60….

About my guitar : You can see the pics on Delcamp Fr .
This model design is quite ugly with its folk cut - fits like feathers to a frog . But I discovered the upper range thus managed and couldn't play without now !
Woods correct for semi-industrial (a chinese workshop with Argentina living boss…) . Adjustment screw for the neck (great, for tension problems make it move up)
Diapasons from 61,3 to 65 ; that locates the "perpendicular fret" between VIII and IX , the Clark-Lister option, compatible with the Rubio-Galbraith prototype which remains the current paradigm .

What else to say ? All the following subjective, personal .
I can't judge the sound quality - for I never played another Brahms . The general feeling is a study guitar, no more . Anyway, the concept of beauty of sound often flirts with a narcissic position . The 1st string is a hell to sound, but seems to be THE problem for everyone who tried it . BTW nobody knows what a Brahms guitar has to sound like, as it is ANOTHER instrument . So that you'll have to experiment strings until you find a compromise between timber and tension, that manages an acceptable gap between 1st and 2nd. Strictly personal I think . If you can forget that inavoidable restriction, nevermind about it and play, a new world will open for you . This general situation can be improved tuning the guitar a semi-tone or even a tone lower - I heard that Galbraith does .

For the all the remaining, there is no other insuperable problem with this extended guitar - less than with the instruments of the lute family, for example .

Fan fretting is a delight for left hand, one immediatly adapts to it - unless if you are one of these prodigies - or blind people - who mentally mapped all the fretboard and never look at it . Some stretches with full barré need more strength and longer fingers, of course … A greater radial bent of the wrist comes naturally in first position, and a cubital reverse feels evident down the neck . Some tricky fingerings are now more easily possible, as to push one note on the 5-6-7 strings with the tip of the fore-finger and an other one with the base on the 1st a case behind - interesting with diminished chords ! And that's only one example, as extra-strings with fan-fretting will induce a lot of new fingering patterns and gestures (and thus new musical ideas) .
I think that the angle between nut and bridge obtained with these string lengths is average comfort - but I never tried more ! Mr Woodhouse, the great Shaman of the instrument, now tries from 60 up to 66 and it seems still playable ; your 56 -68 estimation is actually daring …

What about the r.h. adaptation to extra strings ? Just a question of time and training I think .
I by-passed the problem with a lutenist's device, as I keep the pinky (lightly) leaned on the soundboard, giving me thus the origin of an xOy reference that the other fingers follow soon . But I'm baffled with Galbraith's r.h. freedom, so pianistic … If you played a good time upright, maybe you'll be faster to adapt this way ?

Meanwhile, my mind about playing position is exactly the same than yours : Galbraith's system ("paraphernalia" as he says pleasantly) is just a last attempt to increase acoustic sound, but why not play guitar the current way and plug in with electronics ?

As a temporary conclusion, don't let us make the same errors than did classical guitarists for half a century, with school struggles for left-right attack and other diktats & ukazes, that sterilized the instrument and his repertoire . Deep in my mind, I hope that the Octochord - far better than "Brahms" ?! - will be the XXI century guitar .

Regards, Blkw.
"Non Serviam"

jack_cat
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:18 pm
Location: Latin America

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby jack_cat » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:50 pm

Blkw! You are a gold mine and thank you.
One question that was in my mind was whether to buy a Bartolex on spec before getting one built for me... now I think not.
My high school french has long since been driven out of mind by speaking Spanish but I can at least read, slowly, your posts on the Forum Francais, although I cannot reply - thank you anyway!

The Octochord! Octacuerdia! The garden of the Octochord... ! OctoTar! GuitOcto! Name that instrument...

When I played upright, sitting crosslegged on the floor with the guitar held vertically, I was moving toward emancipating the right hand toward a completely free-floating position, with the guitar itself basically balanced on its butt-end so as to permit maximum freedom of the left hand as well.
However, I moved into a different professional situation as a musician, and that whole posture became just too wierd to present in public. I didn't feel comfortable going for the dress-in-white barefoot crosslegged thing like Paco Renteria or Billy White - I don't have that kind of "spiritual chutzpa", so I am back to sitting in a chair with a footstool, with the guitar more upright than most folks. My duet partner, however, has abandoned the footstool in favor of a strap of the variety which has a single hook in the soundhole, and holds the guitar almost vertically also (60 degrees or so?), lower bout resting on the thigh.

Regarding my evolving specs, I want to make the high A string as short as I can get it within reason so as to use a thicker string... I did a google search for "fanned fret 8 string" and I see some that seem to have more extreme fans than your Bartolex. Presumably somebody can play those things! although they are electrics, not classicals.

Thanks for your help, and I am in the process of reading the threads you linked to.
- Jack

Blkw
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:40 pm
Location: Marseille, FRANCE

Re: request Brahms gtr specs, input from extended range play

Postby Blkw » Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:35 am

Jack, I can understand your will for the shortest 1st possible, but take the time for reflection and advices : 56, hmmmmm …

A general remark from my experience with lutes : I tried diapasons from 45 to 80 cms, and actually felt this striking evidence : the shorter the (open) string, the shorter is the sound . Be aware, that's more than a truism, for there are unexplained things like this situation : a good a' lute is something extremely difficult to find ; his spec is around 55cm ; but take an average g' lute with a 60cm diap., and put a capotasto at the second fret, and it will generally sound better than the a' one - less "crispy" of course . But maybe crispy is your doodah :)

Around the same pitches, thus spoke Master Galbraith :
"As to the all-important question of stringing, I use as thick a nylon 1st string as possible, as it simply sounds & feels better. If it gets too tense, or threatens to break, then I tune everything down.
In fact, I tune the whole guitar down a tone these days, and it's working very well for me - with thicker strings


Moreover, did you ever try a requinto, or a terz-guitar ? Didn't you ever think it would be nicer upon an ordinary guitar with a capo , or even in position, yet more difficult ?

All these twists to explain you my wariness with short diapasons . I'm really afraid a 56 cm thick string would sound dull, or in a dynamic range so lagging that it would need herculean strokes with uneasy tension to match with medium strings . For tension also is quite subjective and feels increasing with shortness : Soprano-lute and Mandolin are less tense than a guitar, and yet feel impracticable at first handling . But I digress ...

BTW, we're all in the same vicious cercle about pitch, length, diameter, tension about this 1rst , ad nauseam ... The solution may occur with new string materials, or luthier's skills - Anyway, did you already find a guitar-maker ready to try such a short first string while assuring a musical result ?

Yours, Blkw
"Non Serviam"


Return to “Multi-string Classical Guitars”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests