Classical guitar as foundation for flamenco?

Somewhere for members interested in Flamenco to exchange related knowledge and techniques. Please do not give direct links to performances.
DavRom
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Re: Classical guitar as foundation for flamenco?

Post by DavRom » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:56 pm

Blondie wrote:Pepe lacks soniquete and aire. To a classical guitarist it might sound like the real deal but to flamenco aficionados he simply isn't in the running...
wow! Pepe is not in the running as a flamenco guitarist just as Paco wasn't in the running as a classical guitarist when he performed Concierto de Aranjuez

but, to say Pepe has no rhythm or soul...really?!

so you are a classical guitarist (who according to you can't tell the difference), yet you write as if you are a born and bred flamenco. since you make such a daring distinction between those in the know and others, tell us, which are you really?

btw, as a classical guitarist i listen to the likes of Gerardo Núñez, Antonio Rey, Vicente Amigo etc on a regular basis

liopro

Re: Classical guitar as foundation for flamenco?

Post by liopro » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:34 pm

Thank you all guy for the tips. Much appreciated!

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Blondie
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Re: Classical guitar as foundation for flamenco?

Post by Blondie » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:27 pm

DavRom wrote: wow! Pepe is not in the running as a flamenco guitarist just as Paco wasn't in the running as a classical guitarist when he performed Concierto de Aranjuez
Eh? Not sure whether you are trying to be ironic, but check out what the composer thought about Paco's interpretation if you are in any doubt over its credibility.
DavRom wrote: but, to say Pepe has no rhythm or soul...really?!
No, not really. I was wondering where you got that then realised you had taken two words, crudely translated them, taken them out of context and replaced one of my words with your own. I'll try again.

Pepe is an awesome guitarist, I hear a great sense of rhythm in his classical repertoire and he is a very expressive player with fantastic tone.

His flamenco lacks soniquete and aire, to my ears, and for that matter to other flamenco players I know when the subject has come up. I did not say Pepe 'has no rhythm or soul'.

As to the rest of your post, classical guitarists have many misconceptions about flamenco, I see them pop up on this board all the time and can give examples if you wish. However, the reverse is certainly true also and I have not claimed to be any kind of expert.

Try not to take criticisms of players you admire so personally.

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Cloth Ears
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Re: Classical guitar as foundation for flamenco?

Post by Cloth Ears » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:26 pm

I also prefer Pepe's Aranjuez, no matter what Joaquín Rodrigo said. I never heard him play flamenco though, so I cannot comment on the reverse. Having said that, Paco did great variations on Aranjuez.

DavRom
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Re: Classical guitar as foundation for flamenco?

Post by DavRom » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:55 pm

Blondie wrote: Try not to take criticisms of players you admire so personally.
Nice try at making this something it's not...fail

I see no point in going further with u

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Erik Zurcher
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Re: Classical guitar as foundation for flamenco?

Post by Erik Zurcher » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:10 pm

To answer the OP's question, I am not sure that studying classical guitar is the best way as foundation for flamenco. Gerardo Nuñez is a great flamenco guitarist with a beautiful tone, Vicente Amigo is more expressive. Flamenco is all about compás, classical guitar about tone and the interpretation of composed music. Both are difficult to master. I believe that mastering both disciplines on a high level is not possible.

In short: make a choice in the music you wish to play and find the best teacher in either discipline.
Reedition Domingo Esteso by Conde Hermanos 2004; Kenny Hill, model Barcelona 2001
"While you try to master classical guitar, prepare for a slave's life: the guitar will forever be your master and you its slave".

Write_Rich
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Re: Classical guitar as foundation for flamenco?

Post by Write_Rich » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:42 pm

As a classical guitar player I eventually found my way to flamenco thinking I could easily pick it up and incorporate it in to my classical guitar playing as needed.. Classical guitarists are able to play anything right? Well..

To this day I try like mad to get that flamenco vibe and just cant do it. I always sound like a classical guitarist trying to play Flamenco. Surely I am lacking soniquete and aire! Alas. Still I have found many of the techniques used in flamenco guitar (rasgueado especially) are quite helpful for the classical guitarist to practice and incorporate. When I feel like taking a break from classical I will often pick up one of my flamenco books (I like Juan Martin's El Arte Flamenco de la Guitarra and Denis Kosters Keys to Flamenco books) and try to work my way through some of the exercises. Flamenco is a whole world of its own as rich and varied as classical guitar with not only guitar playing but singing, dancing and accompaniment. I am barely brushing the surface of this style which requires as much focus and discipline as classical guitar..
2015 Yamaha CG172F - Flamenco
2013 Francisco Navarro Garcia Grand Concert "Hauser"
2008 Ramirez 125 anos Limited Edition
2002 Ramirez R4
2000 Alhambra 5P

Gary Macleod
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Re: Classical guitar as foundation for flamenco?

Post by Gary Macleod » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:54 pm

There is a fantastic Scottish guitarist called Andrew Robinson, search him on YouTube, he studied classical guitar at the Royal Academy of music in Glasgow but now plays primarily flamenco. Oh, and he's really good at at both.

liopro

Re: Classical guitar as foundation for flamenco?

Post by liopro » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:11 am

Gary Macleod wrote:There is a fantastic Scottish guitarist called Andrew Robinson, search him on YouTube, he studied classical guitar at the Royal Academy of music in Glasgow but now plays primarily flamenco. Oh, and he's really good at at both.
He's very good indeed. Still there's not enough raw power if you know what I mean. Very soft and subtle. On the other hand none says flamenco should be played in one way only. Not nowadays at least.

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