Recording yourself

Creating a home studio for recording the classical guitar. Equipment, software and recording techniques. Amplification for live performance.
fatwarry
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Re: Recording yourself

Post by fatwarry » Tue May 30, 2017 6:28 pm

Mousemat, If you only want to check out your playing any of the suggested portable recording devices will be more than adequate but actually there's no need to spend any money if you already have a smart(ish) phone. There are plenty of free apps that will allow you to record yourself. Quality won't be great but you don't need it to see how your playing is getting along. Even better you could video-record yourself using your phone and get free, instant feedback about your playing technique in both hands, posture, positioning etc
"I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours" - Bob Dylan (1963)

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Recording yourself

Post by rojarosguitar » Tue May 30, 2017 7:22 pm

:bravo:
fatwarry wrote:
Tue May 30, 2017 6:28 pm
Mousemat, If you only want to check out your playing any of the suggested portable recording devices will be more than adequate but actually there's no need to spend any money if you already have a smart(ish) phone. There are plenty of free apps that will allow you to record yourself. Quality won't be great but you don't need it to see how your playing is getting along. Even better you could video-record yourself using your phone and get free, instant feedback about your playing technique in both hands, posture, positioning etc
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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DanRock101
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Re: Recording yourself

Post by DanRock101 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:55 am

In my experience of recording classical guitar, the chain of mic > cable > preamp > interface > .... and we can speculate from here as to weather to use a Channel Strip and print with EQ/FX, etc., and sample rate, DAW, etc.....

In the past I've used AKG 414's, Blue Kiwis, Neumann U87s, Bock 195, Audio Technica AT4030, Royer 121, and Coles 4038 & 4040. The ribbon mic route is the way to go. Classical guitar recordings don't need all the transients of condenser mics. Know that with ribbon mics, you'll need a preamp/interface with plenty of CLEAN gain. I've used the Metric Halo ULN8, ULN2, Apogee Duet, M-Audio Profire 610 & 2626 and they have plenty of clean gain for ribbon mics! You can always make up the high-end/treble EQ the ribbon mics lack via your DAW/plug-ins.

Hope this helps! :-)
AER Compact 60, Mackie Freeplay
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rojarosguitar
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Re: Recording yourself

Post by rojarosguitar » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:58 pm

DanRock101 wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:55 am
In my experience of recording classical guitar, the chain of mic > cable > preamp > interface > .... and we can speculate from here as to weather to use a Channel Strip and print with EQ/FX, etc., and sample rate, DAW, etc.....

In the past I've used AKG 414's, Blue Kiwis, Neumann U87s, Bock 195, Audio Technica AT4030, Royer 121, and Coles 4038 & 4040. The ribbon mic route is the way to go. Classical guitar recordings don't need all the transients of condenser mics. Know that with ribbon mics, you'll need a preamp/interface with plenty of CLEAN gain. I've used the Metric Halo ULN8, ULN2, Apogee Duet, M-Audio Profire 610 & 2626 and they have plenty of clean gain for ribbon mics! You can always make up the high-end/treble EQ the ribbon mics lack via your DAW/plug-ins.

Hope this helps! :-)
DanRock101, not meaning criticizing, but I think somebody having all this stuff you mention here probably wouldn't ask here :wink: . All the mics, preamps and interfaces are certainly great but also expensive stuff, and if the OT poster just wishes to have a decent documentation of his own work, it's a tiny bit of an overkill for that.

As I wrote in many places and as also has been pointed out here, for many purposes small mobile digital stereo recorders like Zoom H2, Tascam DR-40, or even Zoom iQ7 with iPhone (if it's there anyway) are marvelous and have one huge advantage over all the expensive stuff: they are extremely easy to set up, and after you set them up, you can forget them, which means, you can be in 'artist mode' instead of 'tech mode' (the latter not being very conducive to good relaxed playing).
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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DanRock101
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Re: Recording yourself

Post by DanRock101 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:06 am

I don't remember saying to the OP to go on a shopping spree and go broke :-)

Imparting experience & wisdom is what the OP was asking for, and I was doing so in offering mine and offering more than one option for a mic, interface & preamp. Had I just mentioned one, I'd be a shill, wouldn't I? :wink:

In any case, I no longer "(have) all this stuff" anymore, meaning all the gear I mentioned, it's been sold off. My recommendation was was to go the ribbon mic route and to choose an interface which has enough gain. No every ribbon mic is expensive nor are the M-Audio interfaces I mentioned. Again, I'm imparting & wisdom an experience on things I've used, & tested, not guess-imated or giving opinions off of the top of my head on a whim.

As far as going the Zoom, Tascam route, um NO! Classical guitar is something that should be captured properly; that's why we're all here because of the art of it all. If you're going the Zoom/Tascam route, might as well just use your iPhone's on board mic if you wanna capture things on the go. As far as cataloging & capturing a great performance, the you need to step it up.

For capturing archival-grade-commercial QUALITY recordings (like something you wouldn't feel guilty having people pay for with their hard earned money), go with a decent interface/preamp and a ribbon mic; preferably in MS or Blumlein. If you're sketching ideas that will not master or mix well in the future and you don't care about quality, go with a Zoom/Tascam/Line 6 iPhone interface (all of which I've used and would NOT use for a serious project).

rojarosguitar wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:58 pm
DanRock101 wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:55 am
In my experience of recording classical guitar, the chain of mic > cable > preamp > interface > .... and we can speculate from here as to weather to use a Channel Strip and print with EQ/FX, etc., and sample rate, DAW, etc.....

In the past I've used AKG 414's, Blue Kiwis, Neumann U87s, Bock 195, Audio Technica AT4030, Royer 121, and Coles 4038 & 4040. The ribbon mic route is the way to go. Classical guitar recordings don't need all the transients of condenser mics. Know that with ribbon mics, you'll need a preamp/interface with plenty of CLEAN gain. I've used the Metric Halo ULN8, ULN2, Apogee Duet, M-Audio Profire 610 & 2626 and they have plenty of clean gain for ribbon mics! You can always make up the high-end/treble EQ the ribbon mics lack via your DAW/plug-ins.

Hope this helps! :-)
DanRock101, not meaning criticizing, but I think somebody having all this stuff you mention here probably wouldn't ask here :wink: . All the mics, preamps and interfaces are certainly great but also expensive stuff, and if the OT poster just wishes to have a decent documentation of his own work, it's a tiny bit of an overkill for that.

As I wrote in many places and as also has been pointed out here, for many purposes small mobile digital stereo recorders like Zoom H2, Tascam DR-40, or even Zoom iQ7 with iPhone (if it's there anyway) are marvelous and have one huge advantage over all the expensive stuff: they are extremely easy to set up, and after you set them up, you can forget them, which means, you can be in 'artist mode' instead of 'tech mode' (the latter not being very conducive to good relaxed playing).
AER Compact 60, Mackie Freeplay
MacBookPro 9.1, MacPro1.1 & 3.1, Logic 9 & X, ProTools9, Finale 2014 & Encore 3.1
Metric Halo ULN8

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DanRock101
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Re: Recording yourself

Post by DanRock101 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:10 am

:thumbs up:
BellyDoc wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:26 pm
You can get a decent USB condenser mic for less than an analog mic plus digital interface, but then if you're like me you'll eventually end up with both!

You'll need a mic stand (or stands) and I suggest using a boom-stand type so that you can position the microphone close to your sound hole, If you get an analog microphone, you need mic cables which are sold separately, and I recommend some stabilizing weight on the mic stand (I've "borrowed" my wife's ankle weights).

If you're going to record yourself to learn about tone, you should probably consider getting speakers that are significantly better than the ones built into your computer. You can run a pair of studio monitors. As a plus, if you get the analog-to-digital interface (I use the Scarlett 2i2 by Focusrite - and love it), there's output for the monitors.

I recommend a good pair of headphones, too. They turned out to be surprisingly useful for me. I get some instant feedback about tone through them that's more immediate than recording and listening.

If you have a Mac, you have Garage Band already, which is completely serviceable for recording. Otherwise, you'll probably want to think about your software options.
AER Compact 60, Mackie Freeplay
MacBookPro 9.1, MacPro1.1 & 3.1, Logic 9 & X, ProTools9, Finale 2014 & Encore 3.1
Metric Halo ULN8

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Recording yourself

Post by rojarosguitar » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:07 am

Hi DanRock102, I don't see much contradiction between our ideas because they pertain to different points of view. I fully agree that serious recording of anything, and especially of classical guitar and other quiet instruments (like lute or our e.g.) requires highest quality mics and pres.
For documentation of ones' own progress or for 'self-education' the small thingies like Zoom or Tascam or iPhone are good enough, that's all...
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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bert
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Re: Recording yourself

Post by bert » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:04 am

I like recording more since I use a Zoom H2N, even though the microphones might not be as good as those professionals use. No hassle with cables, just turn the thing on and start recording.

If you don't have to cater to audiophiles than DanRock's route is not necessary IMO.

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DanRock101
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Re: Recording yourself

Post by DanRock101 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 pm

Very true, not much contradictions, but the Zoom or Tascam or iPhone are good enough only for taking musical "notes", NOT archival quality or if you want to present your guitar art to someone, that's the difference. The Zoom or Tascam or iPhone are going to pickup the transient-picking-attack and boomy bass (depending on where you place the mic), nothing else.

A guitar is not a percussive instrument like drums, congas, or a PIANO (which is a percussive instrument) for that matter. An SM57 will do for those sources. For classical guitar, more is needed, unless you're playing a Taylor crossover nylon string guitar, but then, you wouldn't be on a CLASSICAL GUITAR forum. <<<<<Said all with love!
rojarosguitar wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:07 am
Hi DanRock102, I don't see much contradiction between our ideas because they pertain to different points of view. I fully agree that serious recording of anything, and especially of classical guitar and other quiet instruments (like lute or our e.g.) requires highest quality mics and pres.
For documentation of ones' own progress or for 'self-education' the small thingies like Zoom or Tascam or iPhone are good enough, that's all...
AER Compact 60, Mackie Freeplay
MacBookPro 9.1, MacPro1.1 & 3.1, Logic 9 & X, ProTools9, Finale 2014 & Encore 3.1
Metric Halo ULN8

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DanRock101
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Location: Oxnard, CA, USA

Re: Recording yourself

Post by DanRock101 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:15 pm

Yes, classical guitar mastery is such a hassle :wink:
bert wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:04 am
I like recording more since I use a Zoom H2N, even though the microphones might not be as good as those professionals use. No hassle with cables, just turn the thing on and start recording.

If you don't have to cater to audiophiles than DanRock's route is not necessary IMO.
AER Compact 60, Mackie Freeplay
MacBookPro 9.1, MacPro1.1 & 3.1, Logic 9 & X, ProTools9, Finale 2014 & Encore 3.1
Metric Halo ULN8

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