Mic advice please!

Creating a home studio for recording the classical guitar. Equipment, software and recording techniques. Amplification for live performance.
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sax512
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by sax512 » Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:08 pm

Thank you for your encouragement. I sent you a e-mail. I use a Focusrite Saffire 24 and custom made mic drivers.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by rojarosguitar » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:51 pm

sax512 wrote:Thank you for your encouragement. I sent you a e-mail. I use a Focusrite Saffire 24 and custom made mic drivers.
Mic drivers meaning preamps, I suppose?
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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sax512
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by sax512 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:46 am

No, the preamps are the ones in the Focusrite. The drivers are the circuits that are usually inside a standard microphone and provide the first stage of amplification. With my microphone the capsules are located apart from the drivers, inside the binaural head, and the drivers are attached to them by a long shielded cable.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by rojarosguitar » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:15 pm

Hello, I found some time today to produce a little comparison between Cascade X-15 and SE Electronics X1R, so if you like to listen to it and just communicate your findings, you are welcome.

I will disclose the secret later ...

best wishes

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=75318
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by rojarosguitar » Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:16 pm

sax512 wrote:No, the preamps are the ones in the Focusrite. The drivers are the circuits that are usually inside a standard microphone and provide the first stage of amplification. With my microphone the capsules are located apart from the drivers, inside the binaural head, and the drivers are attached to them by a long shielded cable.
OK got it, I call them also preamps, more properly pre-preamps ;-)
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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sax512
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by sax512 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:53 pm

Hi Rojaros,

I finally took the time to watch the video. I think I might have to go with setup n.5. Aside a slight boominess, which every set up seems to have (even 7 and 8, that sound thin and distant too me), it's the one that sounds closer to the real thing, and you don't hear too much of the left hand noises either.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by rojarosguitar » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:29 am

Hi,

here is the list of setups for this video:

1 Cascade X-15 Blumlein - FetHeads - Millenia Media HV-3D
2 Se Electronics SeX1R pair Blumlein - Millenia Media HV-3D
3 Se Electronics SeX1R pair Blumlein - FetHeads - Tascam Mx-4
4 Cascade X-15 - FetHeads - Tascam Mx-4
5 Se Electronics SeX1R pair Blumlein - AEA TRP
6 Cascade X-15 - AEA TRP
7 Cascade X-15 - Tascam Mx-4
8 Se Electronics SeX1R pair Blumlein - Tascam Mx-4
9 Se Electronics SeX1R pair Blumlein - FetHeads - Millenia Media HV-3D
10 Cascade X-15 - Millenia Media HV-3D

Just one quick comment: As every body found, the worst were 7 and 8. This makes very clearly the point how ribbon mics degrade when recorded over an unsuitable preamp (ways too law input impedance)... The proof that it is not that Tascam Mx-4 is a bad preamp per se is given by 3 and 4, where the same mics had been put through FetHeads and thus had a better impedance matching ...
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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sax512
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by sax512 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:19 pm

That makes sense. I guess the boominess i hear is due to close positioning of the mics, and the impedance match is electronics 101. I there any difference when you specify blumlein configuration rather than not, as in 1 vs. 4?

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by rojarosguitar » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:10 pm

sax512 wrote:That makes sense. I guess the boominess [1.] i hear is due to close positioning of the mics, and the impedance match is electronics 101. [2.] I(s) there any difference when you specify blumlein configuration rather than not, as in 1 vs. 4?
1. Yes, the mics were too close ... but that brings out the difference between them stronger

2. No, for comparisons sake all recordings were in Blumlein without moving the mics at all, just switching the electronic connections. They were as close to each other as it was possible and the playing position was also always the same as much as possible ...
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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sax512
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by sax512 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:16 pm

Thanks :)

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sax512
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by sax512 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:50 pm

Another recording...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3DPwChHjQY

Same church and player, different guitar and mic placement.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by rojarosguitar » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:43 pm

Hi Marco I'm just listening to your new recording ... first of all, I really enjoy the performance.

As to the sound: I liked the other recording better for beeing clearer and more open. This one seems to be a little veiled to me, a bit like through a long corridor. At 5:46 something very unnatural happens with the bass E, it jumpes at least a few dB up from the forte E played before ... (Edit?). Any compressors or limiters/expanders in the signal path?

keep going...

best
Robert
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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sax512
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by sax512 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:50 pm

Hi Rojaros,

The mic was placed a little farther this time. Also, there is no compression this time. Compression usually makes the sound a little more compact, but I tried to use the natural compression of the distance without having to compress in the mixing this time. This is about as far as i would put the microphone in that church, though. 1 or 2 feet closer would have been a better choice, I agree.
The sound that comes up at 5:46 is just the reproduction of the way Adam decided to play that passage. Interesting but unusual sound, indeed :)

Thank you for you suggestions and opinion, as always.

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rojarosguitar
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by rojarosguitar » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:52 pm

Thanks. I asked about the limiters/expanders, because the E jumped out that strong as if some expander had kicked in at that moment ... it's totaly aout of proprtion, because soundwise you hear that he was playing the E strongly just shortly before, and it was much lowe in volume ... Might have been an edit with another take that was louder?
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

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sax512
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Re: Mic advice please!

Post by sax512 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:31 am

It's just the way he plucks the string. He uses only flesh in that part and goes as loud as he can. It sounded that way when I heard it live. Once you get past the surprise effect and unusual sound, it actually is an interesting choice of playing, on my opinion. That guitar has very powerful bass too.

All takes were done without changing mic position or preamp gain.

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