US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

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Florentin Tise

Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by Florentin Tise » Sun Nov 01, 2015 7:39 pm

All these questions, and all the nice photos I've added for the seller, and we don't even know if the instrument is still available for sale... :D

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petermc61
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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by petermc61 » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:15 pm

bacsidoan wrote:
petermc61 wrote:
ivan wrote:As a proud owner of the new 2015 Joshia de Jonge guitar, i can say without any hesitation that Joshia guitar is really a superb instrument in all aspect. It has an extremely fast response yet with long sustain, and thick fat juicy tone.
It is faaaarrrrr better than a 2015 Dominique Field (triple the price than Joshia) that i also manage to got recently. Better power, much better craftmanship, much better sustain, much wider tonal range.
It is just a fabulous instrument..
Sorry to the OP, and I do hope you sell your lovely guitar, but I do find it rather perplexing that a claim would surface of 'much better craftsmanship' than Dominique Field. I suspect you are reflecting aural and aesthetic preferences in your comment. Field displays craftsmanship of the absolute highest order.
I trust Ivan's judgement. Knowing him over the years, I am quite certain that he has no hidden agenda and has seen a few great guitars.
Hi Doan

It is not a question of 'judgment', Doan. Ivan, yourself and I have all played some wonderful guitars from a wide range of luthiers. I also do not think for a minute there is any hidden agenda or the like, I am happy to make that very clear. I think it is more a matter of taste as to what constitutes 'fine craftsmanship'. To my mind it is about quality execution against design goals, and 'fitness for purpose', whether that purpose is functional or aesthetic. Field's work is by design quite understated by comparison to many luthiers. I like that, others might not. I recall on this site when Ivan gave a glowing review of a special limited production guitar done by Andrea Tacchi - where the craftsmanship was described by him as "PHENOMENAL", adding the guitar was like jewelry. My reaction to that guitar (seeing only photos, not the guitar in the flesh) which I posted in this forum was that it looked like 'bling'. To this day I just can't stand the look of the instrument. Nothing against Tacchi, I have owned one of his instruments and he is a fine luthier. As an example of his craftsmanship though, that particular guitar left me very cold. Nothing against Ivan either, just he and I share different perspectives on that instrument and I suspect what constitutes fine craftsmanship. That's cool....

I would also caution against early judgment with some guitars. Some start full of colour and character and don't move on much from there. I have had those guitars and ended up selling them 6-12 months later when the initial love wears off. The Field Ivan refers to is less than several months old. My experience with Field's guitars is that they are quite 'tight' and a little ungiving when new. Even, consistent, but rather 'natural' in sound. Play the heck out of them for a year or two and then decide whether it is the guitar for you.

Anyway, back to the Joshia de Jong thread! She looks like a beauty! Each person is seeking a particular sound and a particular aesthetic and I hope the right person comes along for this instrument!

Cheers
Peter

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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by Michael.N. » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:20 pm

We normally use the term 'craftsmanship' in a rather specific way. It really refers to how well something is technically executed. To state something has been made with 'much better craftsmanship' would imply that one of them displayed flaws of a technical nature i.e. joints that aren't as well executed, poor fretwork etc. If you are making that claim it's probably best to state the actual 'flaw', that is to substantiate that claim. Decisions on design/inlays should be seen somewhat differently, those are more of an artistic choice. There really is no right and wrong in those choices, although it may be true to say that someone demonstrates 'good or classical taste'. So it is with things like heel carving. There are many 'shapes' but it's not too difficult to spot one that lacks grace and appears to be a little clumsy. Such an example can easily fall into the realm of being poorly executed or the maker lacking a 'good eye'. In short I would be very careful of making such judgements unless you are absolutely sure of your knowledge of 'craftsmanship'. In my experience very few players have the knowledge to make such judgements.
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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by ivan » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:52 am

Regarding Joshia guitar's craftmanship,
it is very different with Tacchi Archipelago that i receive last year. Tacchi is full with colorful elaborate rosette and purfling which i definitely know (Andrea show me the videos) it is very hard to make.

Joshia craftmanship is completely different, it looks very simple and understated when i received the guitar. But when i observe it closely every milimeters on my guitar, i notice many extremely well executed details that surpassed even Tacchi, Brune, or Dominique Field. From the choice of material (wood, fretwire, position markers, etc etc), execution (V-joint, fretwork, fine purfling line, etc), french polish quality, set up, are all superb.

Rather than argue with anyone who doubt my judgement, i prefer to let you know this. On 2 months of my ownership of Joshia guitar, there are 6 new orders for this very good guitar (5 from Indonesia, 1 from my very good friend in Phillipines). Everyone seems instantly fall in love. One of them is the owner of Tacchi Archipelago who has so many bigname fine guitars in his collection. I hope it could describe very well about the quality level of Joshia guitar..

Ivan

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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by ivan » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:51 am

Thanks Peter,

I'm glad to hear that from you. Well, it seems my lack of English makes me hard to find an appropriate word to describe something. 'Quality of execution'.. That's what i'm trying to describe about Joshia guitar in terms of her craftmanship.

Regarding the Field guitar, i have very deep respect to Dominique Field. And i appreciate his level of work.

Thanks Bacsidoan for your really kind comment!!

Michael N.
I can show the difference between Field's and Joshia's work in various aspect like you have mentioned such French Polish quality, fretwork quality, difference quality in set up, joint, etc etc. But i prefer not to do that publicly like this as have respect for all guitarmakers out there. But in my observation, i can confidently stand on my judgement above. But don't get me wrong, there is no flaws on 2015 Field guitar, it is also perfect. But Joshia just have much more attention to the smallest details (I'm NOT talking about elaborate rosette and purflings or another accessories).

For anyone wants to know more details can send me a PM. I can show you some pictures via email as a comparison, but It is better to judge the guitar by have it in your hand of course.
Last edited by ivan on Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by ivan » Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:05 am

André Blanc wrote:Hello,

just for my knowledge, is it a double-top or a traditional fan braced guitar ?

regards

André
Andre,

It is basically an all wood lattice. She (Joshia) once show me the whole picture of braced soundboard. There are fan braces in left and right wing on the top. So i'm not so sure, maybe it is somekind of hybrid between lattice and fan brace. But no artificial material, all wood. She design it herself and she said that her goal with this system is to balance and achieve wider tonal palatte on her instrument. She never talk about volume / loudness.

I'm not sure about the 2012 guitar on sale here (i'm convince it has same very good quality), but mine is very loud. Maybe comparable to 3 Redgate guitars that i have tried and observed closely. But the range of tonal palatte is very wide like Marin Montero guitars. Very sweet sound in tasto, but raspy bite, sharp edgy sound, like a flamenco in ponticello.

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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by Number 6 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:22 pm

ivan wrote: Joshia craftmanship is completely different, it looks very simple and understated when i received the guitar. But when i observe it closely every milimeters on my guitar, i notice many extremely well executed details that surpassed even Tacchi, Brune, or Dominique Field. From the choice of material (wood, fretwire, position markers, etc etc), execution (V-joint, fretwork, fine purfling line, etc), french polish quality, set up, are all superb.
Ivan
Better workmanship than Tacchi, Brune, and Field? Are you a luthier qualified to make that assessment? I am sure that the Dejong is a nice guitar. But I doubt that the "craftsmanship" is better than those 3 fine builders. Besides craftsmanship, more importantly how is the guitar voice?

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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by ivan » Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:05 pm

Well, it depends what kind of craftmanship that you are talking about. If you are talking about colorful and elaborate ornamentation of course Tacchi is hard to beat. Field and Joshia is very simple in appearance, but the quality of execution is extremely well. I will my vote to Joshia for her attention to details and polish quality.

The basic character of Joshia guitar is thick and juicy tone. Unlike Redgate that i have found it extremely bright and brilliant. The timbre is subjective and may not everybody's taste, but the overall measurable performance (sustain, balance, power, projection, range of color) are all very good.

Field also very good, it has superb balance with very dark, bold tone. Even more pianistic than Tacchi Archipelago.

Joshia is typically super fast response guitar (imagine like Ferrari, Lamborghini). Tacchi Archipelago and 2015 Dominique Field is slow response elegant type (Rolls Royce, Bentley).

I hope this helps to describe it, and good luck with the sale.

ivan
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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by ivan » Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:09 pm

I'm not a luthier but i have Tacchi, Field, Joshia in my hand. There are at least 3 guitarmaker come to my house to examine Joshia guitar and they all agree the polish and craftmanship is on extremely high level. Very clean and neat.

*local guitarmaker / luthier anyways. One of them is very competent and have experience to handle many good guitars (vintage Kohno, etc etc).


Btw, when i comparing Joshia's work with Tacchi, Brune, Field, i do not have any intention to say any bad things about Tacchi etc. In fact i have an extremely close relationship with Tacchi and i have very deep respect to him. Last year, he visit my home and he even made a small car toy for my little son. Just to clarify

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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by precsmo » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:12 pm

ivan wrote:As a proud owner of the new 2015 Joshia de Jonge guitar, i can say without any hesitation that Joshia guitar is really a superb instrument in all aspect. It has an extremely fast response yet with long sustain, and thick fat juicy tone.
It is faaaarrrrr better than a 2015 Dominique Field (triple the price than Joshia) that i also manage to got recently. Better power, much better craftmanship, much better sustain, much wider tonal range.
It is just a fabulous instrument..
Far better than a Dominique, was it due to sound port, which having the player alone to expereince a louder and more responsive performance. Maybe the audiences at the front have very different results?

ivan
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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by ivan » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:14 pm

I have tested this guitar in various condition and various people both as a player and an audience. When i said better, it is not due the soundport. In fact, i play my Joshia always with the soundport closed (almost everytime), because the response is so great already..

The most surprising to me is that the timbre of Field's guitar is not at all traditional. It is extremely overly dark and bold. Even bolder, thicker, darker than the Tacchi Archipelago. I once describe Tacchi has very pianistic sound, the Field is even more pianistic, it is too much for me. The one aspect really impressed me in Field is the balance / homogenous between strings and all register. But the range of tonal palatte of Field is very narrow, traditional fan brace but very narrow tonal palatte (can you imagine?)

Other than balance, joshia clearly win in all aspect. Far quicker, more power / dynamic, much wider tonal palatte, much better sustain. The timbre is indeed different, Joshia is also thick, juicy, and round (although not as thick and bold as Field), but it still has brightness and sparkle in the treble. Field is very pure almost without any brightness / sparkle.

Please note that i'm talking about Field's newest guitar with his newest more modern construction. His guitar now is not feather light like his older guitar. The back and sides are heavily reinforced and extremely rigid. The back has 3 horizontal ladder brace plus 3 vertical brace (somekind of lattice). The sides has 32 small vertical brace. So the weight is around 1.9KG (same weight with Joshia's guitar - double back side). So this Field that i observed here is clearly not a traditional guitar build in Spanish tradition anymore.
Last edited by ivan on Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by bushweek » Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:30 am

Back in 2011 I spent a wonderful afternoon at Guitar Solo in San Francisco testing 15 or so high end guitars side by side. 2 Rucks, 3 Thames, Sakurai, Bernabe, and others. All wonderful guitars. But my favourite was the Joshia De Jong. I'd never heard of her before that day (only Sergei), and I was surprised to find out it was an X-braced lattice. I remember the trebles were particularly impressive.

The other one that I really liked was a 1973 (I think) Ruck that had lived a hard life and was in poor condition. Totally different beast... But it had that rare extra something that master guitars have.

I've no doubt whoever gets this guitar will love it! Seems a very fair price..

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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by zupfgeiger » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:47 pm

I am a bit surprised as none of these two Joshia Dejonge guitars which are offered on delcamp, are selling so far, although her craftsmanship is praised very highly, not only on this forum. And prices seem not to be exaggerated at all.
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Tobias Braun, Santos copy, spruce/yew, 2017
Andrea Tacchi, Enrique Garcia model, Spruce/BRAZ, 2016
Giovanni Tacchi, Daniel Friederich copy, cedar/EIR, 2017
Alain Raifort, cedar/EIR, 2004

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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by Cincy2 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:17 pm

ivan wrote:

The basic character of Joshia guitar is thick and juicy tone. Unlike Redgate that i have found it extremely bright and brilliant. The timbre is subjective and may not everybody's taste, but the overall measurable performance (sustain, balance, power, projection, range of color) are all very good.

Joshia is typically super fast response guitar (imagine like Ferrari, Lamborghini).
I own both a Joshua deJonge guitar and a Ferrari and I can tell you that Ivan's description is very accurate. :) Guitar response and tone are a matter of taste. For me, this instrument is the epitome of what a CG should be.

Cincy
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Re: US $.6800 Joshia Dejong spruce 2012, philadelphia

Post by simonm » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:09 pm

zupfgeiger wrote:I am a bit surprised as none of these two Joshia Dejonge guitars which are offered on delcamp, are selling so far, although her craftsmanship is praised very highly, not only on this forum. And prices seem not to be exaggerated at all.
Maybe ask your wife nicely if you could have just one more guitar, you could help solve the problem! Good chance of success if you pick up a nice present for her this weekend.

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