Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

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gtrfinger
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Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby gtrfinger » Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:56 pm

I note that the arrangement offered here doesn't include the dropped D I've seen elsewhere. There are many arrangements, I wondered if you could recommend some. Having difficulty with the fingering in bars 5-7. Additionally I note that in bar 6, some arrangers play a G# in the bass, and others an E.

Any tips or links to arrangements? Maybe I should stop being lazy and just do my own.
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby Polifemo de Oro » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:28 pm

Although I don't like Marcos Díaz's transcription of the 6th cello suite of Bach, his transcription of the 1st suite is pretty nice. You might also consider Michael Lorimer's as well. Also, don't automatically discount the transcription by Stanley Yates even though it is transposed to C major. Julian Bream also made a transcription of the Prelude to this suite; but I don't really prefer it.

There is also:

http://www.classicalguitarschool.net/music/1006.pdf

Two versions on IMSLP. And, if none of the above work for you, get a copy of the Six Suites published by Bärenreiter and make your own.

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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby Nick Cutroneo » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:41 pm

gtrfinger wrote: Additionally I note that in bar 6, some arrangers play a G# in the bass, and others an E.


What do you prefer? Either bass note is correct as the harmony being outlined is an E major chord. The G# provides a nice half step resolution to A (in bar 7), however the E bass gives a nice V-I resolution.
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mike.janel
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby mike.janel » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:42 pm

This is very popular piece and there are many many arrangments.
To my taste, the drop D is what makes this piece. After all this is a Cello Suite, so I expext the bottom to be deep.
As for the G#, again, to my taste this is very cool as it "pulls" you onto the next bar.
I feel too unsecure to try and make an arrangment of my own.
What I do is listen to few interpretations of the "original" instrument, find one for the Guitar which I think does justice, and try to find an arrangment that resembles that. I often "borrow" some bars from several different arrangment to get that same effect.
I guess I am only a youtube copycat, but I really can't make it on my own with the basis I have got at the moment.
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Aucaman
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby Aucaman » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:34 pm

When I learned this prelude my teacher and I looked at about 10 different versions. We first decided to stick to the D arrangements with the dropped D in the bass. That eliminated some scores. Then we looked at various fingerings and chose the arrangement made by Per-Olov Kindgren as the one that we liked the best. [I told KIndgren and he was pleased. :) ]
But even then, just like Mike above, in some measures I borrowed fingerings from other people. My model to follow was the performance of John Feeley on YT, which I think is excellent. When I finally acquired his score, I was already too advanced in my study of the prelude and I didn't want to make too many drastic changes.
One more thing: I think I learned a lot about this Prelude while listening to the original cello version of it.
By the way, I also like the G# on measure 6 a lot. :casque:

Good luck :bye:

musikai
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby musikai » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:00 pm

To make the decision more difficult you can also try my transcriptions of the piece.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=26737#p266721
Concerning the dropped D version you can of course play the first D high and the second low octave, as in most other versions.
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bacsidoan
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby bacsidoan » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:16 pm

John Duarte's, played by John Williams
Jeffrey McFadden's, played by Tariq Harb
LiLy Afshar, score and album, less embellishment, well thought out fingering.

All available for purchase, not free.

Rasqeo
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby Rasqeo » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:50 pm

Manuel Barrueco has published a nice version. It's available from his website.

Malcolm
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby Malcolm » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:49 am

My teacher has just had his arrangement of this piece published I think with a drop D. You would be expected to pay for it (don't know how much but I can assure you it is a quality arrangement). If you like I can ask him to contact you.

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gtrfinger
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby gtrfinger » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:46 pm

Many thanks everyone.
I found a nice one on the docslide site.

[Mod Edit: link removed to site that does not respect copyright.]
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Andrew Barrett
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby Andrew Barrett » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:30 am

I am particularly fond of John Duarte's. However, as others have noted there are so many transcriptions of this piece it can be overwhelming. It is worth your consideration if you ever intend to play the rest of the suite. If so, you might as well choose a transcription that is part of a set so you would have access to the entire suite in the same transcription style down the road.

As far as bar. 6, Duarte uses a G#.

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Jstanley01
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby Jstanley01 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:59 am

mike.janel wrote:This is very popular piece and there are many many arrangments.
To my taste, the drop D is what makes this piece. After all this is a Cello Suite, so I expext the bottom to be deep....

I agree. I love hitting that low D on the second downbeat every measure for the first four. It's a nice tribute to the instrument the piece was written for.
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby ThomasW » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:16 am

It also sound very pretty - and different - in the key of A (with drop D tuning). You don't need to add many basses, if any. You get the choice between playing the 3rd, 4th and 5th note of the arpeggios (for example the first bar) using slurs or campanella. Both ways sound charming.
The whole suite sounds great in A, btw.

JohnB
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby JohnB » Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:23 pm

gtrfinger wrote:Additionally I note that in bar 6, some arrangers play a G# in the bass, and others an E.


The G# follows Bach's original on the cello. With this type of arrangement it's always worth having a look at the cello original. Downloadable and viewable out of copyright scores are available from imslp.org. (If you Google on "bach cello suite no 1" you will see the link to imslp in the results.) Yes it uses the a different clef and it is in a different key (G major) but even if you aren't familiar with the clef you can still get the idea from the relative pitches of the notes.

Like Andrew Barratt, I have the Duarte transcription but there are some aspects that I don't like and which I change: e.g. in the Prelude he alternates the bottom D between the fourth and sixth string whereas I much prefer sticking to the D on the sixth string as that seems truer to the spirit of the original.

I believe that, with transcriptions, listening to the music played on the original instrument can also give very valuable insights. Googling on "bach cello suite no 1" brings up Mischa Maisky and Yo-Yo Ma on YouTube (the Maisky is a video performance) - both are very fine cellists and their performances are well worth hearing.
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Stephen Faulk
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Re: Bach Prelude Cello Suite No 1 advice please? BWV 1007

Postby Stephen Faulk » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:50 pm

Here's a fun thing to do: Tune the E down to D and take a Planet Waves capo or any capo that will cover half the fingerboard and allow the bass stings to be free. Put the capo on the second fret covering the DGBE strings Then you have DAEAF# tuning. Put your index finger on the G string fourth fret note B another fifth. DAEB the first four strings are tuned in fifths and you can play the BWV 1007 with index finger half bars on the DAEB tuning.

Ok I cheat because I'm a cellist and I memorized the prelude of the first suite and found the game of figuring out in that tuning to be fun.

The other thing you can do to study the cello score is to use a beater guitar and change the bass E string to a heavier string, like a D'darrio overwound bass .056 or .054. Tune it down to C then tune the regular A string down to G, leave the D string as is and then tune the G up to A. Then take off the B and E strings Or leave them whatever.

You can read the score in bass clef and see how the cello makes the shifts to get the chords, the value is if you hear the cello and you look at the several kinds of fingerings a cellist would have the choice of doing you can understand more about a cellist would phrase the passages. I think you see things the guitar alone does not reveal through a tuning in forths. Knowing the tuning in fifths laid out compared to the fourths on guitar I learned a lot about how the guitar arragments make compromises and have a few advantages.

Of course this study might just be the preoccupation of someone dumb enough try to play the cello and the guitar.
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