Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

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markodarko
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by markodarko » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:00 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:However, it is worth noting that in terms of modern playing technique, rest stroke is hardly ever used, and does not need to ever be used.
To rephrase that sentence...

"However, it is worth noting that in terms of modern playing technique, the full range of tones available on the guitar are no longer required."
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

Philosopherguy
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by Philosopherguy » Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:23 pm

markodarko wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote:However, it is worth noting that in terms of modern playing technique, rest stroke is hardly ever used, and does not need to ever be used.
To rephrase that sentence...

"However, it is worth noting that in terms of modern playing technique, the full range of tones available on the guitar are no longer required."

That is a great way of putting it! hahaha.. I don't think anyone who says "you don't need rest stroke anymore", has ever really listened to great guitar playing in terms of musicality. It's true that Sor or others might not have played certain pieces the way we might too, but they also would have played on a very different guitar with gut strings. Not too many people around here using just gut strings and guitars from the 1800's (some.. not many). Also, musical tastes can change?!?! There is no reason to be stuck in some notion that things have to just be played like it all occurred in a time bubble. Guitars have progressed, so has playing technique. If you want to be stuck in some notion that "Sor would have wanted it like this", why don't you put on a period outfit and only play guitars that were around in his day and age? hahaha..

For the record, I happen to like the rest stroke.
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robin loops
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by robin loops » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:20 pm

Whenever I see the rest stroke vs free stroke debate I think of questions like, 'what is your favorite string to play on?'
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Cloth Ears
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by Cloth Ears » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:45 pm

well said Robin!

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by AndreiKrylov » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:03 pm

markodarko wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote:However, it is worth noting that in terms of modern playing technique, rest stroke is hardly ever used, and does not need to ever be used.
To rephrase that sentence...

"However, it is worth noting that in terms of modern playing technique, the full range of tones available on the guitar are no longer required."
I use it all the time... :)
I'd better speak by music...Please listen Andrei Krylov at Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music, Amazon Prime etc. Thanks!

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Tom Poore
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by Tom Poore » Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:46 am

Just watched the finals of the 2016 International Classical Guitar Competition in Wroclaw, Poland. There were six players:

• Tengyue Zhang (China)
• Ali Arango (Cuba)
• Giulia Ballare (Italy)
• Anton Baranov (Russia)
• Andrea De Vitis (Italy)
• Andrzej Grygier (Poland)

That’s a diverse selection of players from around the planet. All of them used rest stroke. Some more than others, but none eschewed it entirely.

The death of rest stroke has been reported many times. Concert level guitarists, however, don’t seem to be getting the memo.

Tom Poore
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Ramon Amira
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by Ramon Amira » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:44 am

Tom Poore wrote:Just watched the finals of the 2016 International Classical Guitar Competition in Wroclaw, Poland. There were six players:

• Tengyue Zhang (China)
• Ali Arango (Cuba)
• Giulia Ballare (Italy)
• Anton Baranov (Russia)
• Andrea De Vitis (Italy)
• Andrzej Grygier (Poland)

That’s a diverse selection of players from around the planet. All of them used rest stroke. Some more than others, but none eschewed it entirely.

The death of rest stroke has been reported many times. Concert level guitarists, however, don’t seem to be getting the memo.

Tom Poore
South Euclid, OH
USA
:D Right on, Tom. Just like reports of the death of the novel, and other deaths, reports of the death of the rest stroke are greatly exaggerated, actually entirely wrong. Oh - and silly.

Ramon
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Lovemyguitar
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by Lovemyguitar » Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:09 am

Tom Poore wrote:Just watched the finals of the 2016 International Classical Guitar Competition in Wroclaw, Poland. There were six players [including]: ... Anton Baranov (Russia)...
All of them used rest stroke. Some more than others, but none eschewed it entirely. The death of rest stroke has been reported many times. Concert level guitarists, however, don’t seem to be getting the memo.
:D

I have seen Anton Baranov in concert, and in addition to rest stroke, he also employs sul tasto and sul ponticello in his playing, both of which have also been rumoured to have died. Just goes to show that you can't believe everything you read (especially on an internet forum!).

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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by MessyTendon » Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:18 am

Rest stroke can be used effectively to cancel the corresponding resonate string. If you use a rest stroke, it will in effect cancel resonating sympathetic strings or even help get rid of wolf notes, of course not entirely. A strong free stroke can make the top of the guitar hum and make non musical sounds or notes. It's not that one is bad or one is right.

You've got to use both to control the resonance of the top of the guitar. That is my theory. But I didn't graduate from MIT. Since you phrased the topic in the Rest Stroke VS Free Stroke, I respectfully disagree, to agree to disagree and cognitive malfunction will persist as I figure out what a rest or free stroke is. I simply don't know, but I do know you've got to use one or other to the control the response of the guitar.

Lovemyguitar
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by Lovemyguitar » Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:57 am

MessyTendon wrote:... That is my theory. But I didn't graduate from MIT. ..and cognitive malfunction will persist as I figure out what a rest or free stroke is. I simply don't know...
Instead of an MIT degree, may I suggest classical guitar lessons?

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markodarko
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by markodarko » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:51 am

MessyTendon wrote:If you use a rest stroke, it will ... even help get rid of wolf notes
Huh?
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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:25 am

This topic always throws up the view -'rest stroke is old-fashioned, classical guitar technique has moved on', or words to that effect. I'd love to know where this idea came from. It is wrong.

Adrian Allan
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by Adrian Allan » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:54 am

Denian Arcoleo wrote:This topic always throws up the view -'rest stroke is old-fashioned, classical guitar technique has moved on', or words to that effect. I'd love to know where this idea came from. It is wrong.
At one time, 20+ years ago, it used to be overly taught by teachers. Rest stroke has its place, but it should be used in a minority of cases.

It doesn't need to be used at all, as a free stroke that uses a variety of attack strengths and tone colours can be used for all music, and there is plenty enough variety there if the player is creative.

In some styles of music, rest stroke sounds ungainly - eg. most Baroque.

It also deadens the sympathetic resonance of adjacent strings.

I also think it sounds naff when used to "bring out" a melody line - eg. Sor B minor study. A more developed "a" finger can bring it out without the need for a clunky rest stroke every few notes - but this is how it used to be universally taught.

As somebody recently suggested, it is useful for fast scales, especially when competing with an orchestra for volume. But even then, a strong free stroke can be used instead.

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markodarko
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by markodarko » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:40 am

Adrian Allan wrote:It doesn't need to be used at all, as a free stroke that uses a variety of attack strengths and tone colours can be used for all music, and there is plenty enough variety there if the player is creative.
Without going into the passionate vs precise tone differences (which are clearly required for different pieces), there is no other way of producing a loud, beautiful tone with minimal effort than by using a rest stroke. Yes, a free stroke can produce lovely tone too, of course, and I use it most of the time, but it takes a lot of effort to create the same volume as you can make from a rest stroke, which in comparison uses no effort at all. Generally speaking, free strokes that are plucked really hard also tend to lose their loveliness and become less "rounded" in tone compared to a free stroke of the same volume.

Additionally, if you're not using a rest stroke for your thumb then you are missing out on a lot of bass response. When I really need to emphasise the bass then it's rest stroke every time. There's really no alternative there if you want the full rich bass tone. Other times I'll use free stroke for the thumb if I want more definition to separate voices. Depends on what I'm playing.

There's a place for both. Playing with just one stroke is like saying you'll play the piano without using the mute or sustain pedals. It limits you.
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

Adrian Allan
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Re: Rest stroke vs. Free stroke

Post by Adrian Allan » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:47 am

Well, it comes down to opinion and perference.

I never use it, and I am a better player than when I used to use it, but I have always been a very loud player in any case, so it is just not for me and not really needed for loudness.

To refer to another thread I posted yesterday, in his book Matt Palmer says that he never uses it, but uses a lot of variety in the angle and strength of his free strokes and he is a great player, so that is how he achieves variety.

I agree that a lot of young players lack variety, but IMO it is more due to lack of
imagination in hand position than under use of rest stroke.

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