Tatyana's Lagrima

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Whiteagle
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by Whiteagle » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:01 pm

I enjoyed her performance and the video.

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David_Norton
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by David_Norton » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:43 pm

petermc61 wrote: Gee, you're a tough critic David.
Nah, I'm just a crabby old man with anger management issues.
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Adam
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by Adam » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:54 pm

I honestly don't like the entire premise of this thread. If you wanted to talk about Lagrima interpretation, why not create a thread about that. But creating a thread just to critique one of Tatyana's performance videos seems disrespectful to me. I happen to like her (and her videos) a lot, and I think she is above this.

Related to grading, if Lagrima is grade 6 or 7, then the grades are probably easier than I assumed they are. I've only been playing about 2 months after almost 4 years off, and I can already play Lagrima pretty cleanly (I did use tabs to refresh my memory on fingerings). Just started looking at ABRSM, was thinking about which one I should start with. I was thinking about 3 just to get my feet wet, but I may just jump up to 5. Maybe I'll create a separate thread about that.

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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by graceman » Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:58 pm

Way to much Rubato I think. Sometimes it almost makes the music stand still, and hides the natural rhytmic feeling that must still be preserved even in a romantic piece. Funny thing - I think this is a typical playing style of many Musicians from Eastern Europe. They have so much "passion" that they sometimes forget just to play the score.
"..don't be afraid to miss a note. Being afraid is the only way you are sure to miss it.."

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Kent
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by Kent » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:01 pm

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Stephen Kenyon
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:17 pm

Adam wrote: Related to grading, if Lagrima is grade 6 or 7, then the grades are probably easier than I assumed they are. I've only been playing about 2 months after almost 4 years off, and I can already play Lagrima pretty cleanly (I did use tabs to refresh my memory on fingerings). Just started looking at ABRSM, was thinking about which one I should start with. I was thinking about 3 just to get my feet wet, but I may just jump up to 5. Maybe I'll create a separate thread about that.
Sorry to keep jumping in on grade-related questions. But I don't think anybody mentioned grades 6-7 and it certainly isn't either (edit; except AMEB). It used, in the old days, to be on Grade 4 ABRSM but is currently deemed inappropriate for a place on a grade at the moment. That, as I understand it, would be because of the barré requirements.
Above all, don't fix on one piece as a benchmark (when its not really on a grade at the moment especially!), not least because in a grade its not just about the pieces - to get a decent pass you have to be strong on the sight-reading, scales and aural too. If you want to go with ABRSM (which I recommend over the alternatives, personally) I suggest get the Time Pieces II book and have a go at the items therein relating to grades 3 through to 5 - and bear in mind the other tests too.
If possible a tutor should be in a position to help with this too!
Last edited by Stephen Kenyon on Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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markodarko
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by markodarko » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:41 pm

petermc61 wrote:Hi Mark, heard Bream play this? It makes her choice of tone colour sound positively sumptuous! :D
Ha! Yes, you're right. :lol: Don't like his version either, tone-wise (sacrilege!), but I guess that's just me. Maybe I'm just mellowing in age but the tone just doesn't suit the music to my ears.
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Hotsoup
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by Hotsoup » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:53 pm

I really like her phrasing in the second section. I might try to emulate that later even. The first section doesn't do much for me, the way she plays it.

I haven't watched all her videos but I subscribed when I heard her Bach cello suite (bwv 1007) no. 1. I really really like it!

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by Adrian Allan » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:54 pm

She is good player, but I thought it was too ponticello

Also, I found the emotional input a bit too excessive - it is a simple piece, to be played with a simple charm - it is not Rachmaninov's Second Piano Concerto.
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Big bird
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by Big bird » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:56 pm

igycrctl wrote:Can we please stop talking about her ability to play and start talking about her physical appearance?
Beats the heck out of looking at Segovia or Bream.......

I liked her interpretation, I thought it was very well done.
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Rasqeo
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by Rasqeo » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:00 pm

This has to be in the running for most pointless thread ever...

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markodarko
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by markodarko » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:06 pm

Rasqeo wrote:This has to be in the running for most pointless thread ever...
I don't see why discussing a player's interpretation is pointless. The opposite I'd say is true. Much to learn from others' playing - whether it's played well or not, wouldn't you say?
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Kenbobpdx
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by Kenbobpdx » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:40 pm

Ok, I am going to possibly rile some folks up. I don't usually get involved in polemics about professional players but....I found this truly awful. Especially for someone as talented as she is. Unlike crabby, old David its not about her demeanor on film. The playing is off on many levels.

First, the split notes on the second A section. I find them distracting from the music and they create an unpleasant dissonance and whack out the rhythm .

Second, the obviousness of changing character the second time around on each section. Sweet tone on the first round, harsh tone on the second round. Sweet, harsh, sweet, harsh, sweetish. Just doesn't come together as a whole to me. Bream used to do this but he usually made it work. This doesn't work.

Third, this is a Romantic era piece. We all milk the hell out of the melody but it needs tonal balance. This may be a characteristic of the guitar but those high notes sometimes jump out like screaming children. This is where pros usually outshine the rest of us - they control this to such a fine degree that we can only hope. When I was a student many years ago my teacher would require me to over accent the melody and then back it off to a more balanced state for musicality.

There. I just joined the crabby old men's club. Now, where is Ramon?
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omlove
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by omlove » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:58 pm

David_Norton wrote:I really dislike this one. But this is an unfair statement: had I not known who was playing, I may have enjoyed it. But I don't like any of her videos, in particular those with her coquettish head-bobbing and coyly-cutsy shy smiling. Ugh.
This is really harsh I think. It's very difficult for musicians to make a decent living and networking, marketing, promoting are just as important as sitting at home and practicing. I honestly think many famous performers become famous only partially because of how excellently they play. Especially nowadays social media is dominating, I think her approach of marketing - taking advantage of her good appearance, friendly gesture and easy going personality is very worth learning for students or arising professionals to make a living and/or stand out in today's environment. I also like how the photography, lighting, makeup, etc in her videos are on professional level. Of course the premise is that playing skills cannot be sub par.
Last edited by omlove on Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

astro64
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Re: Tatyana's Lagrima

Post by astro64 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:59 pm

Kenbobpdx wrote:Ok, I am going to possibly rile some folks up. I don't usually get involved in polemics about professional players but....I found this truly awful. Especially for someone as talented as she is. Unlike crabby, old David its not about her demeanor on film. The playing is off on many levels.

First, the split notes on the second A section. I find them distracting from the music and they create an unpleasant dissonance and whack out the rhythm .

Second, the obviousness of changing character the second time around on each section. Sweet tone on the first round, harsh tone on the second round. Sweet, harsh, sweet, harsh, sweetish. Just doesn't come together as a whole to me. Bream used to do this but he usually made it work. This doesn't work.

Third, this is a Romantic era piece. We all milk the hell out of the melody but it needs tonal balance. This may be a characteristic of the guitar but those high notes sometimes jump out like screaming children. This is where pros usually outshine the rest of us - they control this to such a fine degree that we can only hope. When I was a student many years ago my teacher would require me to over accent the melody and then back it off to a more balanced state for musicality.

There. I just joined the crabby old men's club. Now, where is Ramon?
I agree with this evaluation. She is a fine player but it is over-interpreted, if there is such a thing.

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