List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

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twistedblues
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by twistedblues » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:36 pm

Interesting

2handband
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by 2handband » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:56 pm

I hope my earlier post in the thread wasn't too provocative, but the constant misuse of the terms rhythm and harmony are tremendous pet peeves of mine.

Dirck Nagy
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by Dirck Nagy » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:09 am

stevel wrote:...
In "Classical" music, rhythm is not "pre-defined".

Simply put, anything is possible....
Yes, but...
stevel wrote:...
But in Classical *period* music, as well as Baroque, Romantic, and 20the century music where folk forms were not influences or being emulated, there aren't any "stock" rhythmic patterns named. Again, all we have are a handful of "accompaniment techniques" or "stock chord progressions" (Ground Bass, Passacaglia, etc.) but even with them, the amount of variety of "rhythm" within them is pretty much infinite.

Even the ones you encounter fairly regularly don't have names.
I know i'm splitting hairs here, but one of the most obvious unifying techniques that composers have used throughout the ages is a reliance on familiar rhythmic motives. During the Baroque, the most obvious example was probably the Dance Suite: (incl. Allemand, Courant, Sarabande, Bouree, Gavotte, Gigue, etc...) As dance forms (with specific steps), they certainly DID have identifying rhythmic characteristics which would have been instantly recognizable to the audiences of the time, even though the pieces themselves weren't oftem meant to be danced to.

Likewise, a bit later, we have the Waltz (in its various forms) and especially the March, whos characteristic "Quarter / Triplet" or "Quarter, Dotted-8th - 16th" pattern is used and identified a LOT.

Even Medieval musicians used Isorhythms!

The OP, like most global citizens today, probably just doesn't comprehend the vastness of the realm of "Art Music"... many stylistic periods spread across many centuries. He may believe "Classical" is a genre, like "Blues". I think its a natural question for someone new to it; not stupid at all.

My suggestion to the OP is to do a LOT of listening...any recordings, choir, orchestral, chamber music, etc, from any historical / stylistic periods they can find. After a bit, you will begin to intuitively notice the differences in styles.
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twistedblues
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by twistedblues » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:43 am

Dirck Nagy wrote:
stevel wrote:...
In "Classical" music, rhythm is not "pre-defined".

Simply put, anything is possible....
Yes, but...
stevel wrote:...
But in Classical *period* music, as well as Baroque, Romantic, and 20the century music where folk forms were not influences or being emulated, there aren't any "stock" rhythmic patterns named. Again, all we have are a handful of "accompaniment techniques" or "stock chord progressions" (Ground Bass, Passacaglia, etc.) but even with them, the amount of variety of "rhythm" within them is pretty much infinite.

Even the ones you encounter fairly regularly don't have names.
I know i'm splitting hairs here, but one of the most obvious unifying techniques that composers have used throughout the ages is a reliance on familiar rhythmic motives. During the Baroque, the most obvious example was probably the Dance Suite: (incl. Allemand, Courant, Sarabande, Bouree, Gavotte, Gigue, etc...) As dance forms (with specific steps), they certainly DID have identifying rhythmic characteristics which would have been instantly recognizable to the audiences of the time, even though the pieces themselves weren't oftem meant to be danced to.

Likewise, a bit later, we have the Waltz (in its various forms) and especially the March, whos characteristic "Quarter / Triplet" or "Quarter, Dotted-8th - 16th" pattern is used and identified a LOT.

Even Medieval musicians used Isorhythms!

The OP, like most global citizens today, probably just doesn't comprehend the vastness of the realm of "Art Music"... many stylistic periods spread across many centuries. He may believe "Classical" is a genre, like "Blues". I think its a natural question for someone new to it; not stupid at all.

My suggestion to the OP is to do a LOT of listening...any recordings, choir, orchestral, chamber music, etc, from any historical / stylistic periods they can find. After a bit, you will begin to intuitively notice the differences in styles.

Thank you! Thank you!

twistedblues
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by twistedblues » Sun Mar 05, 2017 6:24 pm

Any others?

2handband
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by 2handband » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:09 pm

twistedblues wrote:Any others?
I can't imagine what else could be said. What you appear to be looking for is a standardized set of rhythmic patterns (although that's not how you framed the question), and it simply does not exist.

Here's a suggestion that I wish I could get all of my students to follow: turn down no opportunity to learn to play drums. I mean an actual drumset where you have to do more than one thing at a time. You don't have to master the instrument; just developing a basic proficiency will give you an intuitive grasp of rhythm that most guitarists completely lack, and put you in a place where you never have to think in terms of patterns again. I've always said that if you cannot tap your foot on the beat while playing something perfectly you do not have a strong connection to the pulse, and drummers constantly have to do different things with multiple limbs all while maintaining that pulse. Most guitarists, OTOH, have terrible rhythm. Don't be one of those guitarists.

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Luuttuaja
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by Luuttuaja » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:06 pm

2handband wrote: Here's a suggestion that I wish I could get all of my students to follow: turn down no opportunity to learn to play drums.
I agree. I believe having a rock drummer background has helped me quite a lot with the guitar. Of course drumsets are not just available anywhere for anybody to learn, but if you have a chance, go for it!

Lawler
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by Lawler » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:31 pm

Maybe you mean, "list of rhythms to study to be a skilled musician". If that's what you want, work through the Starer book Tom suggested. It's excellent.

2handband
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by 2handband » Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:39 am

Lawler wrote:Maybe you mean, "list of rhythms to study to be a skilled musician". If that's what you want, work through the Starer book Tom suggested. It's excellent.
Once again I have to ask how you are defining the term rhythm. Honestly I think Steve's comment upthread, while snarky, was accurate as a direct answer to the question posed. Now if by rhythm you mean "commonly used rhythmic patterns" we might have something to talk about, but the two are not the same thing and we need to be sure our terms are clearly defined if we're to provide good answers.

Lawler
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by Lawler » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:41 am

I'm guessing you're not familiar with the Starer book.

twistedblues
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by twistedblues » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:11 pm

Lawler wrote:Maybe you mean, "list of rhythms to study to be a skilled musician". If that's what you want, work through the Starer book Tom suggested. It's excellent.
Awesome!

2handband
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by 2handband » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:39 pm

Lawler wrote:I'm guessing you're not familiar with the Starer book.
Doesn't matter. A list of rhythms would literally look like:

1) quarter note
2) eighth note
3) half note

... etc. If you're looking for commonly used rhythmic motifs that's different, but you need to be clear on what you're looking for. Just asking for "rhythms" indicates you don't fully understand the terms you're using.

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guitarrista
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by guitarrista » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:00 pm

twistedblues wrote:Here is a partial list of Rhythms used in Flamenco music

[...]
I'm surprised a list like this apparently doesn't exist for classical music
These are not rhythms - they are historically-established musical forms. Some of them have the same rhythmic pattern (which is what I think you actually mean by saying "rhythm").

But if instead you are looking for historically-established musical forms (a concept which subsumes rhythmic patterns and has a whole lot more to it), then the names of some have been pointed to you - you still have to find out what rhythmic pattern and other characteristics underlie each one.
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guitarrista
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by guitarrista » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:09 pm

2handband wrote: Doesn't matter. A list of rhythms would literally look like:

1) quarter note
2) eighth note
3) half note
Hmmm... Those are (relative) sound durations. There is no "rhythmic" difference between the three "rhythms". You have to provide a sequence of them and assume other things, like maybe the sound has a sharp attack at the beginning; also what is important for rhythmic patterns is the duration between successive attacks, not the duration of the sound itself (i.e. 16th note + 16th rest + 16th note + 16th rest, repeated, is the same "rhythm" as two 8th notes repeated).
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

2handband
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by 2handband » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:11 pm

guitarrista wrote:
2handband wrote: Doesn't matter. A list of rhythms would literally look like:

1) quarter note
2) eighth note
3) half note
Hmmm... Those are (relative) sound durations. There is no "rhythmic" difference between the three "rhythms". You have to provide a sequence of them and assume other things, like maybe the sound has a sharp attack at the beginning; also what is important for rhythmic patterns is the duration between successive attacks, not the duration of the sound itself (i.e. 16th note + 16th rest + 16th note + 16th rest is the same as two 8th notes).
Literally defined that's all rhythm is; the relative duration of musical sounds. If what you're looking for is rhythmic PATTERNS, you need to specify that this is what you are looking for.

Sometimes I think that rhythm and harmony must be the two most misused terms in the English language.

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