List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

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guitarrista
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by guitarrista » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:15 pm

2handband wrote:
guitarrista wrote:
2handband wrote: Doesn't matter. A list of rhythms would literally look like:

1) quarter note
2) eighth note
3) half note
Hmmm... Those are (relative) sound durations. There is no "rhythmic" difference between the three "rhythms". You have to provide a sequence of them and assume other things, like maybe the sound has a sharp attack at the beginning; also what is important for rhythmic patterns is the duration between successive attacks, not the duration of the sound itself (i.e. 16th note + 16th rest + 16th note + 16th rest is the same as two 8th notes).
Literally defined that's all rhythm is; the relative duration of musical sounds.
Who defines it that way? Or are you agreeing with me above? Not sure. My point was that the three examples you provided (assuming they are repeated notes) are the same rhythm, not three different ones.
Last edited by guitarrista on Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Lawler
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by Lawler » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:56 pm

Twistedblues, I hope you don't get caught up in these terminology arguments. It's pretty clear what you're asking.

From the Preface of Starer's book, Rhythmic Training...”This book represents an attempt to develop and train the ability to read and perform musical rhythms accurately...” “...No attempt has been made to shape these exercises into musical phrases or to give them form by repetition and development of rhythmic motives, since either procedure would tend to make the exercises memorizable by rote upon repetition in practicing.”

The book will help you become fluent with rhythmic notation and develop your sense of rhythm, starting with the most basic notation fundamentals and building up from there. IME students usually find the exercises to be enjoyable as well.

Check out Robert Starer's bio also. Pretty impressive.

twistedblues
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by twistedblues » Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:11 pm

Thank you so much :)

Luis_Br
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by Luis_Br » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:01 am

I think learning rhythm through pattern is actually a bad thing. You tend to obey preconceived sequences and end up with less swing and agogics.
I don't know the book mentioned before. Here in Brazil there is a nice book for rhythmic solfege by Bohumil Med which teaches to develop an overall mathematic logical relationship between figures and its multiples, rather than simply adding different patterns as some old books do.

To me it is also very useful to work with a perception software. A software that will generate aleatory figures and you have to play them with the space bar. (Ear Master is an example of this). The software is nice because it can generate infinite aleatory sequences, while in a book you may have to repeat exercises and it looses the effect. The only limitation is that I haven't found a software with drills for more than one voice at the same time.

twistedblues
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by twistedblues » Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:29 pm


stevel
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by stevel » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:14 am

Dirck Nagy wrote:
I know i'm splitting hairs here.
Yes, splitting hairs. Hairs I tried to imply, but maybe weren't inferred.

Now that someone has posted the rhythmic patterns for dances (dance suite, etc.) from Wikipedia I kind of find those examples laughable.

I do of course agree that when you hear the "oom pah pah" of a waltz, you might guess it's a waltz, and we might call that a "waltz rhythm". But that's about as broad maybe as "shuffle" or "swing" (isorhythm BTW was not fixed rhythmic patterns, but rhythms pulled from other works, though the rhythmic modes might be more specific ideas that get at what "shuffle" sort of gets at).

I feel like the OP was looking more for a list of specifics, rather than broader things and as I hopefully implied, Dance forms are about the closest we get. Still, the variety is so great, it sometimes is best to say "emphasis on beat 2" rather than give any specific rhythm.

Cheers.

Dirck Nagy
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by Dirck Nagy » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:34 pm

stevel wrote:...
Now that someone has posted the rhythmic patterns for dances (dance suite, etc.) from Wikipedia I kind of find those examples laughable.
...
Why "laughable"?
stevel wrote: ... (isorhythm BTW was not fixed rhythmic patterns, but rhythms pulled from other works,...
Thats not at all what isorhythm is.
stevel wrote: ...There are certain Dance forms, such as a Sarabande, that has an emphasis on Beat 2, so often has a Rhythm like quarter followed by dotted quarter, followed by 8th, but it's really only the emphasis on 2 that's important. Siciliienes often have a dotted 8th followed by a 16th followed by an 8th in 6/8 meter.

But when we encounter either of those rhythms elsewhere, we don't say "it's a Sicelliene" rhythm or a "Sarabande" rhythm.
...
What...? "We" certainly do!

A piece doesn't have to be titled a "dance" in order to invoke one...and we're not just talking Baroque Dance Suites either. Large forms (e.g. Opera, and Symphony---especially after about 1800 when composers started to write programatically---) used these elements in their craft. Subtleties such as these are what makes art beautiful and interesting on all levels, basic as well as deep! Knowledge of form is extremely important in interpretation and understanding composers' intents.
stevel wrote:
"Stock" rhythms (and progressions, and patterns) are more the realm of "folk music" and only when folk forms (such as dances) were emulated in Classical music did those things appear.
Not so...the history of Court Dance is much better documented than that of folk dance. Think "Ballet." These forms may have evolved from folk dances, but are often so far removed from the original that their pedigree is untraceable.
stevel wrote:...
I feel like the OP was looking more for a list of specifics, rather than broader things and as I hopefully implied, Dance forms are about the closest we get. Still, the variety is so great, it sometimes is best to say "emphasis on beat 2" rather than give any specific rhythm.
...
and Dance forms are used all the time in "Art Music", and have been since at least the Renaissance. Whats wrong with trying to understand them? This can only benefit a performer.

As I mentioned earlier: even if the piece was not meant to be actually danced, these dance forms, while unfamiliar today, were instantly recognizable to the audiences of the time. This is one of the ways that composers were able to control the tension of a piece, balancing the unifying elements of a familiar form against whatever else they decided to write.

Of course the OP was looking for specifics which really don't exist, but remember the much-maligned OP seems to be a classical music novice. He/she is also an adult, and presumbably capable of understanding that concepts often have different degrees of specification, from basic to complex. Beginners as well as advanced players can benefit from an awareness of subtleties.
stevel wrote: ...
Shall I go on, or do you understand why this is a stupid question?
...
So, this is definitely NOT a stupid question, and honestly, I feel there is too much of this type of response in this forum. Laugh all you want to amongst your friends in private, but publicly denigrating someone who asks for advice is just plain bad manners, and not at all helpful to the mission of promoting "Art Music." Our poor OP might be uninformed, but they are NOT being malicious; they are simply trying to expand their horizons. I don't necessarily agree with the way they are trying to educate themselves, but at least they are trying.

Hopefully, after reading these responses, the OP will be starting to comprehend the vastness of the subject, and begin doing some serious listening, and some practical work, as Tom Poore and Lawler suggested.
2015 John H. Dick
1994 Larry Breslin ("Deerhead")
1952 Vincente Tatay

twistedblues
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Re: List of Rhythms used in Classical Guitar Music

Post by twistedblues » Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:09 pm

Thank you! :bravo:

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