Torre Bermeja - Llobet vs. Segovia

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glassynails
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Torre Bermeja - Llobet vs. Segovia

Postby glassynails » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:03 pm

I realize that ultimately Llobet is responsible for the transcription of Torre Bermeja, although as I type this I'm now wondering if maybe it was actually Tarrega whom Llobet got his from? Not sure. Anyways, I began a few years ago learning Llobet's version and than a few weeks ago I commenced to pick it up again. Now I think that Segovia's version may be a little more "superior" or "interesting" to me, so I'm having mixed thoughts.

I've got Segovia's "Transcipciones" Volume book by Berben and there's a version in there that Segovia supposedly played. Upon listening on YT to some Segovia versions of it I located it. It leaves out the famous harmonics that come in about part way through, although Segovia does a good job at reproducing the harmonic sound using natural notes I think. He also plays another version with the "famous" harmonics that most versions seem to have in them and the original Llobet version did.

Anyways, to me I think the Segovia version is a little more interesting and there are the classic places where Segovia seemed to make the piece easier to play - I think the original is a little tricky to play, especially at tempo.

Most versions that I see are usually a mixture of what I see Segovia doing and parts of Llobet's in places. Did Segovia just alter Llobet's version or is there another version that everyone draws from? I mean, to me the Segovia version is quite different from Llobet's, although of course it shares a little bit here and there in common. Segovia of course does the "octave altering" things harmonically in a lot of places.

Thoughts?
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

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David_Norton
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Re: Torre Bermeja - Llobet vs. Segovia

Postby David_Norton » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:06 pm

Segovia learned this work (and others) directly from Llobet. Naturally some changes occurred over the passage of time. Some were done by intent, some came about through happenstance.

Classical musicians (on all instruments) often get bogged down in thinking they must only play The One True Text of the composition. The problem is that not all composers think that way, at least not any more, though certainly there have been a whole bunch of OCD composers over the decades popping up in various places.

If you TRULY want to play Torre Bermeja with 100% authenticity, you need to learn it on a late 19th century piano. Anything else is a compromise to some degree.
David Norton
Salt Lake City, UT

glassynails
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Re: Torre Bermeja - Llobet vs. Segovia

Postby glassynails » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:30 pm

David_Norton wrote:Segovia learned this work (and others) directly from Llobet. Naturally some changes occurred over the passage of time. Some were done by intent, some came about through happenstance.

Classical musicians (on all instruments) often get bogged down in thinking they must only play The One True Text of the composition. The problem is that not all composers think that way, at least not any more, though certainly there have been a whole bunch of OCD composers over the decades popping up in various places.

If you TRULY want to play Torre Bermeja with 100% authenticity, you need to learn it on a late 19th century piano. Anything else is a compromise to some degree.


Thanks David. I'm not worried about "being faithful to the piano score" , I just wanted to know maybe the historicity of the arrangements, etc, which you've now provided. Thanks. I think I'll be learning the Segovia arrangement more or less, because like I say, to me it's a little more interesting then Llobet's. I think Segovia in general improved most, but not all, of Llobet/Tarrega's arrangements.
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

robinfw
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Re: Torre Bermeja - Llobet vs. Segovia

Postby robinfw » Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:04 am

The original piano version will never come out right on guitar.
Have you listened to this piece on piano?
Even though it may seem to be with great effort.
I would recommend to enter the score into Musescore and edit to your wants.

That being said. Did you listen to Filomena Moretti play this piece?
And if so, what do you think?
Only positive comments will be acceptable. Or not.

Cheers

glassynails
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Re: Torre Bermeja - Llobet vs. Segovia

Postby glassynails » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:46 pm

robinfw wrote:
That being said. Did you listen to Filomena Moretti play this piece?
And if so, what do you think?
Only positive comments will be acceptable. Or not.

Cheers


Yes! I LOVE her interpretation, very beautiful! I'm also not looking to play the "piano version" thanks. I like Segovia's version(s).
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.


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