Question on Paganini Grand Sonata Harmonics

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Adrian Allan
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Question on Paganini Grand Sonata Harmonics

Post by Adrian Allan » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:36 pm

People who play the piece will know this passage
paganini harmonics.png

I am playing the first three harmonics on string one, but finding the nodes 12 frets above and they are artificial harmonics.

Question : How do people in an instant know where to place the node for the C# and the D#, as they are beyond the fingerboard? It can be quite hit and miss for me

I play the next harmonic octave e at fret 5,
the octave G# at fret 4
and the octave high B at fret 3.2 (ie just a bit nearer fret 4 than actually on the fret wire for fret 3)

Does that sound correct for those harmonics, or do people have any other suggestions?
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Guero
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Re: Question on Paganini Grand Sonata Harmonics

Post by Guero » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:12 pm

Hello Adrian!

You could play harmonics 2 and 3 on string two, RH fret VII and IX. The next harmonics on V, IV, III are fine. (Btw, on some guitars art. harm. are harder to play than on others, although the guitar is "better" and sounds better)

Or you play this passage one octve lower, which for the harmonics is easier. Or, like Ana Vidovic, you don't play them at all. :wink:

Greetings, Güero.

robinfw
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Re: Question on Paganini Grand Sonata Harmonics

Post by robinfw » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:37 pm

This is not transcribed for guitar properly.
What is the source?
Best to edit it to your own needs.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Question on Paganini Grand Sonata Harmonics

Post by Adrian Allan » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:07 pm

robinfw wrote:This is not transcribed for guitar properly.
What is the source?
Best to edit it to your own needs.
It is from this website, the Delcamp edition!

are there lots of mistakes; anything you can point out specifically?
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Guero
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Re: Question on Paganini Grand Sonata Harmonics

Post by Guero » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:03 pm

robinfw wrote:This is not transcribed for guitar properly.
I use the Scheit edition. Apart from the last bar (the trill is written out in Scheit) it's identical.
I'd like to see the original score/manuscript anyway. I'll be looking for it later.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Question on Paganini Grand Sonata Harmonics

Post by Adrian Allan » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:14 am

Guero wrote:Hello Adrian!

You could play harmonics 2 and 3 on string two, RH fret VII and IX. The next harmonics on V, IV, III are fine. (Btw, on some guitars art. harm. are harder to play than on others, although the guitar is "better" and sounds better)

Or you play this passage one octve lower, which for the harmonics is easier. Or, like Ana Vidovic, you don't play them at all. :wink:

Greetings, Güero.
Are you sure about the harmonic for C# being on string 2, fret VII?
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robinfw
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Re: Question on Paganini Grand Sonata Harmonics

Post by robinfw » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:55 am

I would like to append to my first reply.
IMO
I really don't know enough to comment on this.

Youtube will show all kinds of variations.
Filomena Moretti pulls this off quite well.
It is possible to find the sweet spots for the harmonics on the E string but why?
In the end you are the boss.

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Re: Question on Paganini Grand Sonata Harmonics

Post by Guero » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:57 pm

Adrian Allan wrote:Are you sure about the harmonic for C# being on string 2, fret VII?
Yes, if your left hand plays c# on fret II you get the art. harm. on fret XIV and the harm. one octave higher on fret VII.
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about this passage. It seems like most of the YT guitarists play naturals here. The risk of mishitting is too high.
I'd rather play it one octave lower, like Moretti does on youtube. (only where sh's playing the 1st mov)
The first 3 on string two, the others on string one.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Question on Paganini Grand Sonata Harmonics

Post by Adrian Allan » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:36 pm

Guero wrote:
Adrian Allan wrote:Are you sure about the harmonic for C# being on string 2, fret VII?
Yes, if your left hand plays c# on fret II you get the art. harm. on fret XIV and the harm. one octave higher on fret VII.
Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about this passage. It seems like most of the YT guitarists play naturals here. The risk of mishitting is too high.
I'd rather play it one octave lower, like Moretti does on youtube. (only where sh's playing the 1st mov)
The first 3 on string two, the others on string one.
Thanks for your help.

I have decided to play them as harmonics, but with C sharp on string one. The C sharp on string 2 means more jumping around. I will use your idea of the d sharp on fret 9. That is great.
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Luis_Br
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Re: Question on Paganini Grand Sonata Harmonics

Post by Luis_Br » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:09 pm

I recommend you check Sergio Abreu recording of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaI-C412jVw
He does some small changes putting or removing some octaved notes and some small variations that results better dynamics and drama to the piece, IMO. He has a particularly nice solution to this passage, I think you can guess through the audio with the score in hands. This is a player with amazing control of sound and dynamics. I particularly like the long crescendo he does in the beginning of the second movement. Only real masters can do this on the guitar and I think it is hard to find such effect this days. To me the original LP sounds even better than the compressed youtube version.
There is also an edition by Eduardo Fernandez which is different and has some nice ideas, published by Ricordi Argentina.

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Adrian Allan
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Re: Question on Paganini Grand Sonata Harmonics

Post by Adrian Allan » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:06 am

Luis_Br wrote:I recommend you check Sergio Abreu recording of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaI-C412jVw
He does some small changes putting or removing some octaved notes and some small variations that results better dynamics and drama to the piece, IMO. He has a particularly nice solution to this passage, I think you can guess through the audio with the score in hands. This is a player with amazing control of sound and dynamics. I particularly like the long crescendo he does in the beginning of the second movement. Only real masters can do this on the guitar and I think it is hard to find such effect this days. To me the original LP sounds even better than the compressed youtube version.
There is also an edition by Eduardo Fernandez which is different and has some nice ideas, published by Ricordi Argentina.
Thanks - he certainly has a lovely tone and some interesting approaches. I will try to work out exactly how he plays that passage.
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