Difficult Chords in Segovia's "Escocesa"

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dankuster16
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Difficult Chords in Segovia's "Escocesa"

Post by dankuster16 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:40 am

A chord, 7th fret.png
I am learning the beautiful folksong "Escosesa" in Segovia's Canciones populares. The tune is not too difficult to play. Eliot Fisk's Lesson is certainly helpful.

My problem is though, how to practice some of the difficult chords (see example) and chord changes, so I achieve a smooth and clean sound. Thank you for some suggestions and help!

Greetings from Switzerland
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David Norton
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Re: Difficult Chords in Segovia's "Escocesa"

Post by David Norton » Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:23 pm

You can thin down some of those chords by removing duplicate internal octaves. For example, there are three A's in that first chord. Leave the bass one for sure, but either of the other A notes could be deleted without a problem. In the second circled chord, the G# on 4 could be deleted as well.

It's well established that "what Segovia played/recorded" often differed widely from what was published in his editions. So there's no need to be concerned about "Violating The Composer's [Sacrosanct] Intentions" by making these sorts of modifications.
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dankuster16
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Re: Difficult Chords in Segovia's "Escocesa"

Post by dankuster16 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:41 pm

Thank you, David.
This is certainly a very good and pragmatical approach.
I am defnitely not afraid of "violating" Segovias work. It would also be sad to loose the joy of playing the whole music by getting stuck in trying to master these chords and chord transitions...I don't want to be over-ambitious, but it would just interest me, how others would approach this challenge, if we wanted to play it like published.

DerekH
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Re: Difficult Chords in Segovia's "Escocesa"

Post by DerekH » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:11 pm

There is a tale of a performer who says "When I first start a new piece, I work out what I can leave out", and David's suggestion here is sensible, not just because of the chance of a fluffed note, but also a difficult chord can cause tension that pulls on the strings and causes intonation problems.

By the same token there was a Koshkin piece I started, and I thought 4 chords in it were totally impossible. A month later, they seemed pretty straightforward (and when you've been playing as long as I have, that came as a surprise).

So I would play the chords the way David suggests, but once or twice a week, I'd try the "real" chords - they might surprise you one day by working out in a way they never have before. This composite approach gives you the chance for technical advancement on the one hand, and a robust performance piece with "no scary bits" on the other - the best of both worlds!

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David Norton
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Re: Difficult Chords in Segovia's "Escocesa"

Post by David Norton » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:25 pm

Here's how I would play it:
Escocesa.jpg
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dankuster16
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Re: Difficult Chords in Segovia's "Escocesa"

Post by dankuster16 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:34 pm

Ok, yes that seems fine. Thank you both for your suggestions!

hpaulj
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Re: Difficult Chords in Segovia's "Escocesa"

Post by hpaulj » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:22 am

Isn't that 2nd chord a Bm, played with a bar VII? The one that starts the Adagio from Rodrigo's Concierto Aranjuez

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Re: Difficult Chords in Segovia's "Escocesa"

Post by DerekH » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:38 am

Yes, it's the same chord, but it's really quite a common shape, and mastering it doesn't really unlock the rest of the Aranjuez :-)

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Re: Difficult Chords in Segovia's "Escocesa"

Post by RichardUno » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:25 am

hpaulj wrote:
Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:22 am
Isn't that 2nd chord a Bm, played with a bar VII? The one that starts the Adagio from Rodrigo's Concierto Aranjuez
It's actually B major (D# on the 3rd string). You could also play the first chord in 9th position, omitting the middle A. Depending on what's coming in the next measure, you could play the last chord in 4th or even 1st position. I think I would practice playing the last chord as written. After several repetitions, it's not that difficult and this sort of shift comes up fairly often. Keep the fourth finger down as a guide finger. Practice the measures slowly but at a constant tempo and gradually increase the speed.

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Non Tabius
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Re: Difficult Chords in Segovia's "Escocesa"

Post by Non Tabius » Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:38 am

David_Norton wrote:
Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:23 pm
You can thin down some of those chords by removing duplicate internal octaves. For example, there are three A's in that first chord. Leave the bass one for sure, but either of the other A notes could be deleted without a problem. In the second circled chord, the G# on 4 could be deleted as well.

It's well established that "what Segovia played/recorded" often differed widely from what was published in his editions. So there's no need to be concerned about "Violating The Composer's [Sacrosanct] Intentions" by making these sorts of modifications.
I totally agree there Dave.From what I have seen that E maj7 on II or VII position is usually 1/2 Bar II and Full Bar VII.That G# is most unusual if not quite
unnecessary, as you say.

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