Counting Rumbas

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twistedblues
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Counting Rumbas

Post by twistedblues » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:19 am

Me and a friend are just looking for clarification here

This is Herencia Latina from Paco Pena and it is a Rumba in 2/4
are Rumba’s usually in 4/4?

https://imgur.com/a/oPUzU

How would you count this? and what beats do you tap on? Is it 123 123 12? Or is it 12?

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guitarrista
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by guitarrista » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:25 pm

Flamenco rumbas are duple meter, yes. You tap it straight and even - 1 2 3 4 one each per quarter note if written in 4/4 or 1 2 if a 2/4 fast rumba or if it is just too much to tap 4 times per bar.
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

twistedblues
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by twistedblues » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:44 pm

Thank you. Here is a video for clarification

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b5g1Ui5uCQs

twistedblues
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by twistedblues » Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:28 pm

For some reason I feel like tapping 123 123 12

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guitarrista
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by guitarrista » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:22 am

That's because there is such an "arpeggiated" structure within the piece after the intro part. However, IMO foot-tapping should be the steady pulse marker and other more complex and/or varying structures would be accentuated by other means.
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

D.Cass
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by D.Cass » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:38 pm

Just to clarify, the 123 123 12 rhythm are polyrhythms, borderlining on polymetric. However, the basic pulse should be felt, as pointed out in the above post, while the polyrhythm are superimposed over the duple meter.

twistedblues
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by twistedblues » Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:59 pm

“foot-tapping should be the steady pulse marker and other more complex and/or varying structures would be accentuated by other means.”

Can you be more specific on how you would approach this?

twistedblues
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by twistedblues » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:00 pm

D.Cass wrote:
Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:38 pm
Just to clarify, the 123 123 12 rhythm are polyrhythms, borderlining on polymetric. However, the basic pulse should be felt, as pointed out in the above post, while the polyrhythm are superimposed over the duple meter.
I get what you are saying but could you be more specific on how you would approach this?

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guitarrista
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by guitarrista » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:07 pm

twistedblues wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:59 pm
“foot-tapping should be the steady pulse marker and other more complex and/or varying structures would be accentuated by other means.”

Can you be more specific on how you would approach this?
Start practicing tapping your foot at the beginning of every quarter-note duration throughout. So if you are into the 12312312 structure after the intro part, your foot taps will coincide with the first 1 and the second 2, i.e. 12312312. So always twice for each 2/4 measure, evenly spaced.

The 12312312 you can accent the way you want (the ones, for example) through stroke accents with your right hand - just in the manner you execute the strokes.

Combining these will at first be awkward, even without the 12312312 accents but just from playing what the melody structure does against the even foot taps; but after a while you will start perceiving both at the same time as if layers of of different textures which combine into wonderful aural shapes.
Konstantin
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1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

D.Cass
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by D.Cass » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:19 pm

In the way I would approach this would start with a metronome. I would have my foot tapping the 1 and 2, while counting 16th notes aloud (1-a-and-d 2-a-and-d). Simultaneously clapping 1 d & |1 d & | 1 d &| 1 2 (essentially the bass line). This will train the ear to hear the polyrhythms while keeping the duple pulse. Furthermore, everywhere I would walk, we actually keep decent time when walking. I would count the rhythm in my head and maybe snap the rhythm too. The idea is to turn this rhythm into a feel. In order to turn into into an internal feel one must live with rhythm. Soon you will be able to hear in other songs or pieces. Also, the 1 d & rhythm, which recently I heard this called a false triplet, is quite popular popping up in Cuban, Brazilian, and Rock music to name a few.
I hope this helps

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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by PeteJ » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:53 am

Good tip practicing cross-rhythms while walking. I used to do this a lot.

twistedblues
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by twistedblues » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:04 pm

Thank you so much everyone! Any other tips?

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Blondie
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by Blondie » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:10 pm

twistedblues wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:04 pm
Thank you so much everyone! Any other tips?
Yes, if you want to understand rumba rhythm, play rumba rhythm. Herencia Latina is not a good starting point to understand rumba IMO, its too busy and based solely on arpeggios as already mentioned. Also, the horrible midi output in that link you posted does not do justice to Paco. Score has a few errors too.

Learn rumba strumming technique (think Gypsy Kings) and you will have something much more fun to play which accentuates the rumba accents, whilst you tap your foot to keep the steady 2/4 pulse. The chords to Herencia Latina would work well as a sequence to practice. There are many rumba tech tutorials on Youtube, I'll try and dig one out that demos properly.

twistedblues
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by twistedblues » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:21 pm

Blondie wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:10 pm
twistedblues wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:04 pm
Thank you so much everyone! Any other tips?
Yes, if you want to understand rumba rhythm, play rumba rhythm. Herencia Latina is not a good starting point to understand rumba IMO, its too busy and based solely on arpeggios as already mentioned. Also, the horrible midi output in that link you posted does not do justice to Paco. Score has a few errors too.

Learn rumba strumming technique (think Gypsy Kings) and you will have something much more fun to play which accentuates the rumba accents, whilst you tap your foot to keep the steady 2/4 pulse. The chords to Herencia Latina would work well as a sequence to practice. There are many rumba tech tutorials on Youtube, I'll try and dig one out that demos properly.
Thank you! Can’t wait

twistedblues
Posts: 207
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Re: Counting Rumbas

Post by twistedblues » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:25 pm

Can someone explain the difference between a rumba in 2/4 and 4/4? This tab is in 2/4 and this wiki link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhumba has rumba in 2/4
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhumba# ... attern.png

Yet all the videos I see on YouTube explain that rumbas are always in 4/4..

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