Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

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Nick Cutroneo
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Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Nick Cutroneo » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:45 pm

arby wrote:
Guitarshreda wrote:
arby wrote:Also, something most methods lack is any kind of a troubleshooting or problem solving section, such as common problems and how to avoid or solve them.
.... BUT I think that perhaps the reason why this isn't done is because these ideas are a part of teacher's style rather then set in stone ways of doing things. My way of problem solving is probably different then other teachers, so its hard to have a section like that in a method and have it useful with another teacher and another style.
If an author leaves out his method of problem solving because it may differ from some teacher that may use his book, then what is the point of writing the book. It would just be another book of graded exercises and studies, already plenty of those.
Delcamp.net has them for free.
The purpose is you want to be able to sell books. How can you sell books if say your way of doing things may or may not be the 'norm' of it. By leaving out something as personal as that, you'll sell more copies, and to be honest, thats what its about, selling the book and making money. This allows ANY teacher to adapt a method and use it for their own. Also it appears that the concept of 'practicing' is passed down through teaching, not talking about it through a book. And I've very rarely seen teachers who actually express HOW to practice at this point in time, talking about setting goals, and how to obtain them.

At the same time, I don't agree with that, which is why I don't really enjoy most methods. There is NO beginner method that talks about practicing, and giving the student a way to practice from the very beginning. All it is, is a collection of exercises, and small pieces and getting students to learn how to read music nothing more. Shearer's method perhaps comes close, but I find that book (the 1st book which is a reference book to the 2nd volume) WAY to scientific, and explains TOO much. A self taught student is going to glaze over in just trying to read and full understanding it. Also instead of being in one method its split up into a reference and recourse book, thus having to turn back and forth for things, and isn't organized all that well. There are too many, "For further explanation see (insert book and page number here)" instead of being introduced and talked about at that point in time.
Nick Cutroneo - Classical Guitarist, performer/teacher/suzuki instructor

arby
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Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by arby » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:12 pm

Guitarshreda wrote:There is NO beginner method that talks about practicing, and giving the student a way to practice from the very beginning.
There is one that does, The John Mills Classical Guitar Tutor.

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Larry McDonald
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Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Larry McDonald » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:20 pm

Guitarshreda wrote:arby wrote:
Guitarshreda wrote:

arby wrote:
Also, something most methods lack is any kind of a troubleshooting or problem solving section, such as common problems and how to avoid or solve them.
.... BUT I think that perhaps the reason why this isn't done is because these ideas are a part of teacher's style rather then set in stone ways of doing things. My way of problem solving is probably different then other teachers, so its hard to have a section like that in a method and have it useful with another teacher and another style.

If an author leaves out his method of problem solving because it may differ from some teacher that may use his book, then what is the point of writing the book. It would just be another book of graded exercises and studies, already plenty of those.
Delcamp.net has them for free.
I strongly considered this for one of my up-coming publications. I think it is a good idea to include a diagnostic and remedy appendix. And I agree that the author should take a position and defend his/her opinions/school.

But I also concluded that a truly usefull problem solving section would be much too big to include in a method book. Like 'shreda say, there are several remediations available for each diagnosis and teachers rarely agree on the applications. So I would need to include multiple options, justifications, graphics, reviews of the literature, and issues of level sequence and projected applications (not to mention musicianship and style). This alone would make for a formidable tome. Including a comprehensive physiological/technical/mechanical analysis for remedialtion (again with with multiple options for different body types) could add an additional hundred+ pages. It would require a review by someone in the medical community. It would need several years of field testing, too, but it would make an worthwhile supplement for the self taught, though, bulky as it may be.

So I decided to include the diagnostic and problem solving sections in a future Instructors edition. This is becoming a unwieldly, messy, big work. I'm several hundred pages deep and I'm not half done yet (the more I dig, the deeper it gets). The initial review by the medical community is done though, and it went well.

It's going to end up like Shearer or Pujol and split into two or more volumes. I pity my editor.

Larry McDonald

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Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by arby » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:14 am

Lare wrote:But I also concluded that a truly usefull problem solving section would be much too big to include in a method book.
The more popular methods tend to be more than one book. Examples: Duncan, Shearer, Noad, Parkening, Sagreras.
Lare wrote: So I decided to include the diagnostic and problem solving sections in a future Instructors edition.
I was thinking of this section more for the benefit of someone trying to solve a problem without the help of a teacher, or a problem the teacher could not help them with.

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Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Larry McDonald » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:10 pm

Maybe I should make a multi-volume "Self-Instructors Edition" as well as an "Instructors Edition". :chaud:
As has been mentioned before on this thread, this is where CD-ROM might work real well. Maybe I could get someone good-looking to be the model; someone like Anna V. or Guitarshreda.

I've already promised to create the young beginners edition next, though.
Larry McDonald

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Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Vesuvio » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:40 pm

Hello Larry,

I've just been visiting your website and looking at the sample pages from your forthcoming book. What an undertaking it must be to produce such a work! What difficult decisions have to be made about what to put in and what to leave out!

I wish you every success with this and your future projects and hope that they will be as successful as Frederick Noad's works have been,

Best wishes, V
"There are only two things worth aiming for, good music and a clean conscience." Paul Hindemith

vgmau

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by vgmau » Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:01 pm

I was a self taught student for a long time and I found the Noad' books extremely useful. I also like the way Noad plays, usually clearly and not too fast.
I would not use it alone though. I find that the repertoire pieces are not always organized in increasing difficulty.

Square

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Square » Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:28 am

ramsnake wrote: There are better books around than Noad and I agree there is not really enough information for the self learner and this can be an issue.
What would you recommend? I've tried pumping nylon (terrible for an autodidact) and Parkening (better), but I haven't tried Noad. Is there a specific book you had in mind when you made this comment?

Jeremy

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Jeremy » Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:50 am

Square wrote:
ramsnake wrote: There are better books around than Noad and I agree there is not really enough information for the self learner and this can be an issue.
What would you recommend? I've tried pumping nylon (terrible for an autodidact) and Parkening (better), but I haven't tried Noad. Is there a specific book you had in mind when you made this comment?
The old shearer books are very good, especially if you work through the entire method as a whole (5 books or so). I've never checked out the shearer books, but they sound good.

Also, pumping nylon is not a method book, nor was it intended to be one, hence it does not fit the role of a method book well.

Vinn

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Vinn » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:02 pm

musicstand wrote:I am comfortable around a table saw so what I did was run the spine along the tablesaw fence and cut 1/8 inch from the spine, and at our local Business Depot (Staples) store they put a multi finger black plastic clasp around all 238 pages as well as the front and back covers.
I'm not kidding, out of all the useful bits of advice on these forums, this one has been the most satisfying : "Saw the spine off your guitar books and ring bind them". Why didn't I think of this before? I have now done this to three of my guitar music books - I was lucky enough to already have a ring-binding machine. The pleasure to be realised from Noad's book sitting flat on the music stand is amazing.

I thank you for this tip.

Now a couple of questions. When I did it, I placed the book on top of a piece of hardboard to prevent tear-out the lower sheets - I had the saw raised right up so that the blade came down at a steep angle (to avoid the paper being pushed back) and I had the book flat on the table with the edge opposite the spine running along the fence (so the whole book was between the fence and the blade) and then took off about 1/8" from the spine. I got a pretty good cut with slight breakup at the edge of the sheets. Is this the way you did it? And how clean was the cut edge? Was is as clean as scissors for example? Also, have you tried a bandsaw? I have a few more books to do and, while I'm quite happy with results so far, I was wondering if there was a better way.

Vinn

musicstand

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by musicstand » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:51 am

Vinn wrote:
musicstand wrote:I am comfortable around a table saw so what I did was run the spine along the tablesaw fence and cut 1/8 inch from the spine, and at our local Business Depot (Staples) store they put a multi finger black plastic clasp around all 238 pages as well as the front and back covers.
I'm not kidding, out of all the useful bits of advice on these forums, this one has been the most satisfying : "Saw the spine off your guitar books and ring bind them". Why didn't I think of this before? I have now done this to three of my guitar music books - I was lucky enough to already have a ring-binding machine. The pleasure to be realised from Noad's book sitting flat on the music stand is amazing.

I thank you for this tip.

Now a couple of questions. When I did it, I placed the book on top of a piece of hardboard to prevent tear-out the lower sheets - I had the saw raised right up so that the blade came down at a steep angle (to avoid the paper being pushed back) and I had the book flat on the table with the edge opposite the spine running along the fence (so the whole book was between the fence and the blade) and then took off about 1/8" from the spine. I got a pretty good cut with slight breakup at the edge of the sheets. Is this the way you did it? And how clean was the cut edge? Was is as clean as scissors for example? Also, have you tried a bandsaw? I have a few more books to do and, while I'm quite happy with results so far, I was wondering if there was a better way.

Vinn
Hello Vinn,
Since then I have done four other music books and I have refined the operation. I no longer use the fence, I now just use the mitre guage to which I screwed a straight piece of 3/4"x 2"x 18" oak. I now use a 60 tooth (plywood finishing blade) and put the book between a couple of scrap 3/16" wall panelling cutoffs. This lets me get even less of the spine to cut off. I also only have the blade about 1/4" above the package as I SLOwly push it through the saw blade. If the blade is too high you will not get a nice clean edge to the pages. I hope this mini epistle is making some sense for you Vinn. No I don't have a band saw and the cut edge is really nice with the new 60 tooth blade. Thank you for your interest.
Regards.
Jim.
PS: I am not able to play the classical guitar very well but I am trying.

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Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by oski79 » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:02 am

I'm not kidding, out of all the useful bits of advice on these forums, this one has been the most satisfying : "Saw the spine off your guitar books and ring bind them".
You can get this done at Office Depot, and probably other places like Kinkos, in about five minutes. I've had them do my Parkening, Noad, and Tenant books, volumes I constantly refer back to, and I think it cost about $2.50 each time. Well worth it, my friend.
“People may say I can’t sing, but no one can ever say I didn’t sing.” --Florence Foster Jenkins

Vinn

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Vinn » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:17 am

musicstand wrote: Since then I have done four other music books and I have refined the operation
Cheers for the advice Jim.

I was a bit worried about cutting too slowly in case of heat build up and charring the edges.

I'll report back if I find any other useful techniques.

Vinn

musicstand

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by musicstand » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:19 am

oski79 wrote:
I'm not kidding, out of all the useful bits of advice on these forums, this one has been the most satisfying : "Saw the spine off your guitar books and ring bind them".
You can get this done at Office Depot, and probably other places like Kinkos, in about five minutes. I've had them do my Parkening, Noad, and Tenant books, volumes I constantly refer back to, and I think it cost about $2.50 each time. Well worth it, my friend.
Hello oski79,
Perhaps Vinn is unfortunate as I was, and had mentioned earlier in this thread, regarding the capacity of the throat of the guillotine at our local Office Depot and Kinko type stores (shops). This prompted me to take the other alternative oski79 and as you yourself have already found out, it certainly makes it so much more enjoyable doesn't it.
Regards.
Jim.

musicstand

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by musicstand » Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:24 am

Vinn wrote:
musicstand wrote: Since then I have done four other music books and I have refined the operation
Cheers for the advice Jim.

I was a bit worried about cutting too slowly in case of heat build up and charring the edges.

I'll report back if I find any other useful techniques.

Vinn
Hello Vinn,
You are certainly correct about the heat build up, that is why I always try to keep the blade the bare minimum above my work. Usually around 1/4" or so. It has pleased me that you found the operation useful none the less.
Regards.
Jim.

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