Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

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MickeyD

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by MickeyD » Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:21 pm

I first became acquainted with the Noad book back in 1972 or so when I first started playing the guitar. I played rock guitar for many years and forgot about the classical guitar. In the last 15 years I started playing again, and again began with Fred Noad's book. The fact that it is so commented upon by the guitar players here shows its power so many years on. Unfortunately Fred Noad passed way, so I guess he won't be around to iron out the kinks in a new edition. Obviously any self-taught method has its flaws, but I learned a lot from Fred Noad. He introduced me to Carulli, Carcassi, Giuliani, and lots of satisfying music and ideas. As far as the table-saw concept goes, I came to a similar conclusion, but less drastic. I photocopied the entire book and had it bound so that it sits flat on the music stand. But nowadays I prefer a 3 ring binder so I can switch the music sheets around for different purposes. I can prepare a notebook for Baroque music, for performance sets, by composer, etc. The ring binder is by far the best solution for me because I can remove the individual sheets I feel like playing and they always lay flat on the music stand. I originally got the idea from watching Pavel Steidl play in a concert.

rashjoe

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by rashjoe » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:55 pm

musicstand wrote:Guitarshreda wrote "" But perhaps the huge spin is at times annoying when trying to use the book (as it keeps closing). ""
I too am a beginner. I don't know any better so I love this book. I use a large "bag clip" found in most grocery stores to hold the book open.

As to those preferring an interactive CD, I input each lesson into "Guitar Pro 5" (use any other notation software) and am able to hear what the piece should sound like and then play with the duets, slow down or speed up the tempo, etc. This process also helps me learn music notation.

Rusty Nails

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Rusty Nails » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:33 pm

musicstand wrote:Today Guitarshreda wrote "" But perhaps the huge spin is at times annoying when trying to use the book (as it keeps closing). ""
As a beginner I feel unqualified to evaluate the Noad book # 1 but I agree with Guitarshreda regarding the book closing in the middle of an exercise. I am comfortable around a table saw so what I did was run the spine along the tablesaw fence and cut 1/8 inch from the spine, and at our local Business Depot (Staples) store they put a multi finger black plastic clasp around all 238 pages as well as the front and back covers.
This has made me very happy now as the book stays open wherever one wishes.
Regards.
Jim.
PS: Thank you Geo for starting this thread.
Good idea but the book should have been made that way in the first place. The same goes for many other classical guitar books.

Rusty Nails

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Rusty Nails » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:38 pm

Steve Kutzer wrote:Something I'd like to see is a DVD with many camera angles on the teacher/player. In general, take better advantage of technology. Each method should have everything recorded (CD or MP3), at a minimum. It'd also be nice if the PC could be involved. So as an MP3 plays, the score is highlighted note by note; turn on or off tabs and chord frames; turn on or off the video and select the angle; allow you to slow the piece down without changing pitch; allow you to loop passages; involve an optional MIDI interface that can show you what you're playing, etc.

Can you tell I'm a technologist? :bye:
I can tell you are a sensible man.

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Larry McDonald
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Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Larry McDonald » Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:30 pm

Hi,

I don't want to hijack the Noad thread but I want to comment on the last few posts.

I just finished a method book. Start-up costs were a concern for me as I wanted to keep the price of the book under $30 U.S. There is a professionally recorded CD and the entire book is in 4 color. My first impulse was to do what Steve suggests, -to do a DVD with multiple HD cameras and all that. But the cost was just too high. It would have put the wholesale cost over $50. My publisher is already blanching at the $30 retail price.

Finale (a music engraving software) now supports video and real audio. My goal for late 2011 (if sales are strong enough) is to have an edition that runs on a computer that scrolls the music, plays a decent recording at variable tempi without distortion, and sync's to a video demonstration. Of course all of this needs to be converted into a viewable package. I wonder if Adobe will have something like this.

Larry McDonald

Vinn

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Vinn » Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:18 pm

I would like to see a book where a pair of hands reach out of the book and play the guitar for me...

Now that's what I call interactive!

Vinn

John Aguilera

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by John Aguilera » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:01 pm

Finale (a music engraving software) now supports video and real audio. My goal for late 2011 (if sales are strong enough) is to have an edition that runs on a computer that scrolls the music, plays a decent recording at variable tempi without distortion, and sync's to a video demonstration. Of course all of this needs to be converted into a viewable package. I wonder if Adobe will have something like
There are things like this out there already - but I tell you I bet lots of people would rather have a sprial bound book - reading off of a computer screen would be too much of a pain. Although having a cd with supp materials on cd is perfect.

Vinn

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Vinn » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:38 pm

jaguiler wrote:
Finale (a music engraving software) now supports video and real audio. My goal for late 2011 (if sales are strong enough) is to have an edition that runs on a computer that scrolls the music, plays a decent recording at variable tempi without distortion, and sync's to a video demonstration. Of course all of this needs to be converted into a viewable package. I wonder if Adobe will have something like
There are things like this out there already - but I tell you I bet lots of people would rather have a sprial bound book - reading off of a computer screen would be too much of a pain. Although having a cd with supp materials on cd is perfect.

Agreed. I used to have completely interactive software for Sor's studies. Scrolling notation, videos, audio, history, etc,etc. But, after a brief play with it, I no longer use it and I much prefer just having the music on the stand and diligent practice.

Although I do often read music straight from my PC screen. It's a great way to keep a catalog of lots of music. But I think the interactive multimedia elements that have been discussed in this thread are overrated and of somewhat limited use.

BTW, on the subject of ring-binding (earlier in this thread), to anyone interested, I have found that my bandsaw does a perfect job of cutting the spines off. Easier to use that the table saw, with less breakout.

Vinn

rapid

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by rapid » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:15 pm

my point about 3rd and 4th finger variation

I've not seen this in this thread- if you use the 4th finger on the D (second string 3rd fret) and the next note to be played is G on the first sring you have to jump to that string with the 4th finger (un-natural),

now what seems natural to me (and i've gone over this since reading this thread)is to use the 3rd finger for the D and the 4th for the G (both on the 3rd fret second and first string respectively)

so it's a "middle way" if you like, rather than one or the other.

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Larry McDonald
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Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Larry McDonald » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:39 pm

rapid wrote:now what seems natural to me (and i've gone over this since reading this thread)is to use the 3rd finger for the D and the 4th for the G (both on the 3rd fret second and first string respectively)
This is exactly correct. Excellent observation!

The fourth finger approach is used to train a tension free "default left-hand position" (see a jpg of my hand playing a Bb below). Compare this to the traditional 3rd finger "splayed" approach of Jason Waldron (and most everyone else) shown second. Incidently, the same muscles that spread the fingers apart (interosseus) also contribute to the flexing of the mid-joint of the fingers. Asking these muscles to do both results in an overload, adding a certain amount of tension and fatigue to the splayed beginners hand.

As rapid says, when two or more notes are found on the same fret, adjustments will need to be made to avoid the "spider-hop", clumsy melodic fracture. The photo of my hand (the first) shows the third and fourth fingers in the vacinity of the third fret (and this is a monster Ramirez 1a 664). The adjustment can be very minor for some players. When the third finger needs to play on the third fret, a child may need to shift ever so slightly. An adult should not need to do this. Most will need to gently pronate. You can see the same sort of thing when one needs to play "A" and "C#" on the third and second strings, respectively. The trick is to return to the relaxed, un-pronated, default position, which should naturally, and elegantly recall the right-hand, only upside-down.

Another benefit to the 4th finger approach is the higher default position of the knuckle of the fourth finger over the finger-board. This allows the player to more easily reach the sixth string with the third and fourth fingers (bottom jpg), whereas the third finger approach requires a much more drastic re-position of the left-hand (compare the jpg's again and imagine the neccessary movements).

All the best,
Larry McDonald
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daniel wong

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by daniel wong » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:15 am

I am using the 1976 edition without CD. Not sure if the later versions are different. Still a few observations:

1. The pieces are very classical. Like to see some more contemporary pieces.
2. The dynamic indications are lacking.
3. Some pieces are out of sequence in terms of difficulties. Like the Spanish Study on page 71 appears probably too early in the book.
4. Overall I do like the book and the approach.

D

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Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Nick Payne » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:53 pm

Publishers put so-called perfect bindings (that's what the Noad books use) on books because they are cheap. To get the books to lie flat, you can take them to an instant print shop for them to slice off the spine and put on a comb binding. I took Noad 1 & 2 and his 100 Graded Classical Guitar Studies to the local print shop, and they charged me something like $20 to do all three.

Deme

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Deme » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:18 pm

I remember it being excellent for working through it with a keen friend outside of tutor time; the exercises test everything for your duet skills and in particular were good for rhythm.

The most memorable was that it had very decent and challenging pieces every so often - always fun to go back and play them for some nostalgia!

Although, you do tend to speed through and finish it quite quickly if you're a fast learner and if your tutor prefers person-person teaching rather than with a good. Then again, I was never a fast learner!

Good book. Good pieces. Good exercises. Worth it, I think.

selftaughtamateur

Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by selftaughtamateur » Fri May 02, 2008 7:40 pm

Steve Kutzer wrote:
I've spiral bound almost all of my music books. I'm coming around to the 3 hole punch idea, though. That way you can see the title on the side of your notebook. Staples can also drill 3 holes nicely.
I like the idea of 3 hole punch. Do you know how much does it cost at Staples?
How you keep the title on the side? I suppose you have to put the book in 3-ring folder, right?


STA

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Steve Kutzer
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Re: Evaluations: Noad's " -Solo Guitar Playing" - Vol 1

Post by Steve Kutzer » Fri May 02, 2008 8:43 pm

selftaughtamateur wrote:
Steve Kutzer wrote:
I've spiral bound almost all of my music books. I'm coming around to the 3 hole punch idea, though. That way you can see the title on the side of your notebook. Staples can also drill 3 holes nicely.
I like the idea of 3 hole punch. Do you know how much does it cost at Staples?
How you keep the title on the side? I suppose you have to put the book in 3-ring folder, right?
STA
Title on the side is pretty much why I'm going to 3-hole binder rather than spiral. I'm not sure, but think the cost is only a few dollars. Staples will save you the side binding that they slice off, so you can slip that into the plastic part of a 3 ring binder. I think I'll give one of my books a go with this tomorrow, and let you know costs and how well it works. The only problem with 3-hole is the pages could fall out, but that's off course true with the original glued "perfect" binding.

All of my spirals are fine though - I'm really only working through a few books at a time, and those are kept at a table separate from my (ever growing) shelf of music.
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