Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

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jdhunt

Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by jdhunt » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:43 pm

ramsnake wrote:It does help that the piece is marked lento but I too find that extremely difficult to pull off cleanly so I would just leave the c out and use the 4th and 3rd fingers as notated giving you a marvellous opportunity to accentuate the campanella effect at that point! :D Letting that one bar stop you from playing the piece would be a shame! :?
Lovely piece incidentally had not come across it before.
I had stumbled across a guys website that had MP3's of a number of guitar works. When I heard that one I was hooked. I am also working on another piece by Cardoso called "Air de Milonga". It from his "Suite Sudamericana" that' s also very nice.

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Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by DanielMcPherson » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:53 pm

Are you holding the 5th string F for the entire measure? In my score, the F is only a dotted eighth note (as are the bass notes in all the measures of the opening section). I'm playing that rhythm literally, damping the note (by lifting my finger) on the "and" of the second beat. In measure 8, this means I can shift my left wrist (as I remove the 1 finger) enough to avoid damping the E string, since I'm only holding my 2, 3, and 4 fingers for the second half of the measure.

Following the exact bass note rhythm makes measure 8 easier. In all of the other measures it feels natural to just let first note ring for the entire measure, so I have to consciously cut the note off in order to play the bass notes as written.

Daniel
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jdhunt

Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by jdhunt » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:56 pm

khayes wrote:Ramsnake, Slim - what is meant by 'campanella' ?? Thanks.
Campanella translates literally as "little belsl". On the guitar, it refers to playing successive notes on different strings, one or more of which are open strings, so that it produces sort of a harp-like sound.

jdhunt

Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by jdhunt » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:05 pm

DanielMcPherson wrote:Are you holding the 5th string F for the entire measure? In my score, the F is only a dotted eighth note (as are the bass notes in all the measures of the opening section). I'm playing that rhythm literally, damping the note (by lifting my finger) on the "and" of the second beat. In measure 8, this means I can shift my left wrist (as I remove the 1 finger) enough to avoid damping the E string, since I'm only holding my 2, 3, and 4 fingers for the second half of the measure.

Following the exact bass note rhythm makes measure 8 easier. In all of the other measures it feels natural to just let first note ring for the entire measure, so I have to consciously cut the note off in order to play the bass notes as written.

Daniel
Good point. That's something I'm probably bad about, is holding onto a lower note longer than indicated. I'll give that a try when I get home tonight.

Thanks.

philparker

Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by philparker » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:19 pm

Personally, I do hold the F for almost the entire measure, then cut the whole measure marginally short with a bass triplet of F; E; D - to lead to measure 9, with the bass D being the lead note of measure 9.

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Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by khayes » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:48 pm

jdhunt wrote:
khayes wrote:Ramsnake, Slim - what is meant by 'campanella' ?? Thanks.
Campanella translates literally as "little belsl". On the guitar, it refers to playing successive notes on different strings, one or more of which are open strings, so that it produces sort of a harp-like sound.
Thanks, jdhunt - I was not trying to hijack the discussion - I had never heard that term before and was not successful trying to find a good definition.
Ken

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Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by ramsnake » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:27 pm

Guitar Slim wrote:Ramsnake,

How about an alternative solution? For those who don't know, "milonga" is not just a title. It's a dance-form related to the tango. And this particular piece is both minimalistic, and embodies textbook examples of quintessential milonga rhythms. So, just omitting a note is not the best option in my opinion, because it really breaks up the rhythm and the line. It's not the same as omitting an extra harmony note in a vertical chord.

So how about substituting one note for another, instead of just omitting a note?. For example, if you're going to omit the F or the A in this measure, you can try repeating one of the other notes instead. That way you don't end up with a hole in the rhythm or the line...

Still, as I said above JD, that chord shape and fingering is not uncommon in CG. So it's probably best to just try and tackle it instead of avoiding it...
Sounds good to me. :)
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Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by ramsnake » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:54 am

Well here it is - video number 50 for Delcamp! :D
Probably not really neccesary as there are heaps of vids of Milonga available but here presented with the alternative fingering in the 8th bar and a totally dud bass note a couple of bars before.! :oops: It was done in a bit of a rush this morning! :)

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Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by Hans W » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:23 am

Ram, is it really 50 vids now. And we have people complaining about posting a few text posts to maintain membership. Ahhhhhhhhhhh.

Obviously there are MEMBERS and then there are the others.

Thanks Ramsnake. You are without a doubt a MEMBER.

Hans
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Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by ramsnake » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:01 am

Hans W wrote:Ram, is it really 50 vids now. And we have people complaining about posting a few text posts to maintain membership. Ahhhhhhhhhhh.

Obviously there are MEMBERS and then there are the others.

Thanks Ramsnake. You are without a doubt a MEMBER.

Hans
Oh Golly Gosh!!! :oops: :oops: :oops: :merci:
Surfing equates to living in the very moment of 'now'. When you ride a wave, you leave behind all things important and unimportant, the purity of the moment is upon you. Bill Hamilton (Kauai, Hawaii)

jdhunt

Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by jdhunt » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:17 pm

khayes wrote: Thanks, jdhunt - I was not trying to hijack the discussion - I had never heard that term before and was not successful trying to find a good definition.
No problem - it's what the forum is all about: learning from each other.

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Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by oski79 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:50 pm

Guitar Slim wrote:For those who don't know, "milonga" is not just a title. It's a dance-form related to the tango.
I just got this piece from my teacher the other day, so I'm just getting started. When he played it for me I took note of the subtle tango-like character, especially in the second part. I'm really looking forward to learning this!
ramsnake wrote:Well here it is - video number 50 for Delcamp!
And ramsnake, thanks and congrats! There are a few "crampy" fingerings early on, and I'm sure your vid will help clear up a few things.
“People may say I can’t sing, but no one can ever say I didn’t sing.” --Florence Foster Jenkins

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Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by oski79 » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:42 pm

After playing through the first section numerous dozens of times over the last 4-5 days, it occurs to me that the measure in question is fingered that way for a good reason. The right hand pattern is exactly the same throughout the entire section, and if you change the left hand fretting you'll have to change the right hand fingering too. That raises the challenge of throwing in one differently fingered measure in the middle of 16 otherwise identical ones, and with that, the difficulty of maintaining consistent "sound" with a different fingering.
jdhunt wrote:Are you holding the 5th string F for the entire measure?
This helps. I've found I need to "squeeze" the 2-3-4 fingers together as much as possible to keep them away from the adjacent strings, and if I release the 5th string F at the proper time it becomes just a bit easier.

It's a beautiful piece, and this is definitely the stickiest part.
“People may say I can’t sing, but no one can ever say I didn’t sing.” --Florence Foster Jenkins

jdhunt

Cardoso's Milonga - another question

Post by jdhunt » Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:29 pm

In the version of the music I have (it's at home, I'm at work so can't look up publisher, etc), at the end (excluding the fine), it is marked D.C. al (signe) Fine, and there are two sixteenth note pick up notes (C and C# if memory serves correct). I believe the D.C. means to go back to the beginning. However, the pick up notes seem to be inconstent with the beginning section. The only version of this piece I've ever heard was by Anastasia Bardina. She goes back not to the beginning but to measure 25.

I would like to hear form others as to how your music is marked and/or how you play the repeat.

Thanks.

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Re: Help with fingering in Cardoso's Milonga

Post by khayes » Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:36 pm

oski79 wrote: ...This helps. I've found I need to "squeeze" the 2-3-4 fingers together as much as possible to keep them away from the adjacent strings, and if I release the 5th string F at the proper time it becomes just a bit easier.

It's a beautiful piece, and this is definitely the stickiest part.
Oski, when you say this is the 'stickiest part', are you talking about those first few measures or do you mean for the entire piece? For me, there are lots of other places in this piece that give me problems. This one place just doesn't seem that hard for me...like you say, the right hand fingering is consistent to what comes before and after, and it's just an F chord for the left hand. The fact that it's a recognizable chord shape makes it easier for me. For the preceding measures I have actually written the chord charts above each change - does anyone else do this?
Ken

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