Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

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lionus

Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby lionus » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:59 am

Hi,

Ok I know learning this piece is way above my level, but I can't help it, the first movement is so beautiful and seems so simple to play but whenever I go above the 13th/14th frets I get barely any sound out, yet when I see Li Jie's clip on it, it's a whole different story all together. It is even worse when I try the modernt/trill effects up in that area.

I can take negative critism, if the piece is too advanced for me I understand. I realise that the piece is probably level 7 or something guitar? I don't know what level I'm at but with no formal training I'm certain that I'd fall around level 2 or 3 or something.

canoe man

Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby canoe man » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:14 am

If you only play the notes separate without playing anything else what volume do you get. How much power are you putting into the 13 and 14 fret notes?

Sean

Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby Sean » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:08 pm

That piece is way above your level. You'll not be able to get any sound out of your guitar until you reach Level 5. At that point, three men in derby hats will hand you a key to unlock the volume above the 12th fret on your guitar. :lol:

Have you tried playing on another guitar? Perhaps the retuning of strings saps your particular instrument of a bit of volume. How about your left hand position above the 12th fret - bringing the thumb to parallel the fingerboard helps get the tips of the LH fingers down, providing a less muzzled sound.

Cheese

Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby Cheese » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:18 pm

Sean wrote:That piece is way above your level. You'll not be able to get any sound out of your guitar until you reach Level 5. At that point, three men in derby hats will hand you a key to unlock the volume above the 12th fret on your guitar. :lol:


:bravo:

lionus

Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby lionus » Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:14 am

The amount of power I throw into each one of those notes feels the same as it is for the lower ones, should I add more power?

Playing above the 12th fret is fine, not as clear as the first 12 frets which I have used since I first got it, it's only really now that I've ventured into this secret area. Anyway, when the hammer ons and pull offs come into play, I can never ever hear the hammer on'ed note, or the pull off'ed note. Well I can but it is nothing like whatever Li Jie does.

Thanks for the parallel thumb tip, originally it was at ~30 degrees off axis. Wait, 30.3 degrees :P Feels a little more comfortable this way.

Lol sounds like you either read too many comics or play lots of role playing games :P

Sean

Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby Sean » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:53 pm

Neither. I'm warped. :lol:

Porphyria

Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby Porphyria » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:48 pm

First I would like to thank you for introducing me to a new piece :)

it might in part be your guitar, so try experimenting with playing more forcefully without letting it become ugly,
regarding your hammer ons and pull offs, try to play the part in a lower position and gradually shifting your way upwards, you might have a problem getting proper leverage in higher positions, with the hammer ons because of your hand position or a weak pinkie,
and with the pull offs because your first finger isn't functioning properly as an anchor
try to spend a few days just focusing on your hammerons and pull offs maybe by playing an easier piece such as Adelita where you really can focus on improving them, and working with getting even volume and tone.

canoe man

Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby canoe man » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:41 am

I am assuming you are are referring to the second line of the second movement. I have seen seen it when the notes are attempted within the line and up to tempo the hand position gets weak contact onthe third string on the 13 and 14 frets. Unless your guitar has extremely high action coupled with dead flat frets, the problem is you. You should not need to power up extreme amounts strength on this, getting the angles square on the string and make sure that you have direct contact versus a glancing bow contact. Your hand position will make it happen or kill it. Playing through this I did find I put a little more effort to get a clean solid tone, but like I said just a little more power.

eschelar

Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby eschelar » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:46 pm

Hey lionus dude! Looks like you started learning this song around the same time I did. I'm probably well below a level 2, but I've gotten quite a ways, nearly finished the third movement and can just sit and play it for about 8 or 9 minutes straight... just by being persistent patient and not particularly concerned about progress, just enjoying the process. About 10 minutes a day, and usually on for two weeks, off for 3 months...

Are you playing from sheet or tab?

I recently went over a couple of details with the guy who posted the tabs and we discovered a couple of mistakes in the transcription. That was really killing me on the first set of mordents... they were written wrong and I just played it the way I heard it (slowed down a few times).

It's not my absolute favorite piece to listen to, but considering it's been my alarm music for a few years and I'm still not tired of it, I'd say it's right up there for me. Not too many songs can be listened to *twice* daily for years without getting tiresome.

mk49
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Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby mk49 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:32 pm

The first two movements of Koyunbaba aren't that hard. It gets harder from the 3rd movement.

If your guitar can produce nice clean sound by just playing single note above the 12th fret, it would have to be your technique. Also, as suggested above, you might want to try it on another guitar, and see what happens.

richard_joh
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Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby richard_joh » Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:54 pm

I think it can depend heavily on the position of your right hand. I typically try to maintain constant ratio between fret-to-hand and hand-to-bridge distance.

Best,
Richard
2007 Ramirez SP (German Spruce / Indian Rosewood)
2011 Richard Joh (Redwood / Zebrawood)

simonm
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Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby simonm » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:41 pm

lionus wrote: yet when I see Li Jie's clip on it, it's a whole different story all together.


Li Jie is one of the world's best guitarists. It's kind of like comparing someone who has taking up jogging with whoever won the 10,000m in the olympics. Two different planets. :mrgreen:

Garry B
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Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby Garry B » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:47 am

Hello all.

I've been trying to learn Koyunbaba but i'm stuck on the third movement, i am using an old 70s/80s guitar made by Crown (i've not heard of them before but i'm relatively new to nylon strung acoustics). My main problems are how to keep the thumb working correctly and how to keep the barre solid. barres are ridiculously difficult on the guitar the action is ridiculously high. Does anyone know the safest method of lowering action please?

Thanks very much.

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James Lister
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Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby James Lister » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:24 am

Garry B wrote:Hello all.

I've been trying to learn Koyunbaba but i'm stuck on the third movement, i am using an old 70s/80s guitar made by Crown (i've not heard of them before but i'm relatively new to nylon strung acoustics). My main problems are how to keep the thumb working correctly and how to keep the barre solid. barres are ridiculously difficult on the guitar the action is ridiculously high. Does anyone know the safest method of lowering action please?

Thanks very much.

If you're new to nylon strung guitars, then the action will seem high even if it is exactly as it should be. Measure the action at the 12th fret, from the top of the fret to the underside of the string, on both bass and treble sides. It should be about 4mm bass and 3mm treble. Anything more and you can lower it to those figures, but if it's already less, then reducing it further will probably result in unacceptable buzzing.

James
James Lister, luthier, Sheffield UK

Garry B
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Re: Is it me? or My guitar, Domeniconi's Koyunbaba

Postby Garry B » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:31 am

Thanks very much James, i'll try to get it accurately measured up tomorrow with a little help (my eyesight's failing) but at a glance it measures roughly a centimeter at the twelfth fret, this is particularly noticeable when playing especially on the wound strings.
Bit of a shame really, though it seems to be a generic guitar the wood's nicely grained and flamed and has seasoned well over the decades giving the instrument a pleasant warmth. If i'm going to be able to eventually crack Koyunbaba i'll need to be able to barre comfortably so i can memorise exactly how it's played as i go, rather than wrestling with the guitar like it's a crocodile or something. How would you suggest i lower the action (also excessively high at the nut) safely please?

Thanks again.


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