Sevilla transcriptions

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KiddiFrissi

Sevilla transcriptions

Postby KiddiFrissi » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:39 pm

Hi, I have been playing the Konrad Raggosnig transcription for 2 years now, but I am considering switching over to the Manuel Barrueco one. Is it a a good Idea switch like this or.... ?

toneslave

Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby toneslave » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:52 pm

It's hard for me to comment on the Ragossnig transcription, but I have the Michael Troster, Barrueco and Tarrega-Llobet transcriptions. In comparison, Troster and Tarrega-Llobet include voices that make the piece a little more difficult to play. For example, Measure 3, beat 3 (Troster G - C - F# - A - F#) (Barrueco G - G - A - F#) (Tarrega-Llobet G - D - C - A - C - F#). As you can see Barrueco's transcription is easier to play; he (EDIT: implements) the Vm7 differently than the other two. Subsequently, in the beats that follow uses of the 'd' are different as well. I've always mixed and matched transcriptions trying to balance difficulty with good harmony. Buy the Barrueco.

Did I just over answer a simple question? I think I did.
Last edited by toneslave on Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KiddiFrissi

Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby KiddiFrissi » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:00 pm

hehe... well The Barrueco versoin is much more difficult then the Raggosnig, but IF you have lot of different versions isn´t it easy to make it difficult for yourself when you are gonna play it live...?

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KevinCollins
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Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby KevinCollins » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:19 pm

Each of them has something to offer, ts. You might consider getting out the original piano score and deciding for yourself what to keep from each. This sounds like work, but there really isn't much to change, Albeniz wrote guitar music and it fits on the guitar, pretty much.

There are several schools of thought -- 1) playing what he wrote, as closely as possible, note-for-note, 2) playing what you think he was thinking if he was playing guitar and 3) arranging your own interpretation of the piece, not just in terms of dynamics and phrasing, but notes. The Llobet is like that, what was he thinking?

The gold standard on Spanish music is the piano playing of (the late) Alicia delaRocha. The earlier Barruecco recording is worshipful of her playing and the arrangement is respectful in this regard. In terms of remaining faithful to the composer, then, play Manuel's.

Don't take my word for it. Get out the score, listen to delaRocha, and take note of his solutions to fitting it on the guitar, note-wise and sound-wise. Albeniz translates guitar sounds onto the piano and our task it to re-translate them back to the guitar. Sometimes, something is lost in re-translation.

If your are going to play Sevilla, though, why not play the whole book? This is where Manuel got it right. If you plan on playing more of them, and don't feel like writing it out yourself, start with the Barruecco.

I memorized the Llobet and then I realized he was playing his personal version, had to relearn it from the Barruecco or those who know would laugh.

Cheers,

Kevin
Kevin Collins, Amherst, Mass, USA All rights reserved.

KiddiFrissi

Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby KiddiFrissi » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:00 am

Yeah I have been listing a lot to Alicia de Laroccha, think I would go for the version who is closest to the piano score cause I would rather make my own transcription rather playing someone´s personal version. Do you know if it is possible to get Julian Bream or David Russell trancription of Valses Poeticos by E.Granados? Thx for replying :)

twistedblues
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Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby twistedblues » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:49 am

Where can we find the sheet music for Julian Bream Sevilla?

Lovemyguitar
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Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby Lovemyguitar » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:44 pm

Twisted: Bream never published his arrangements of his Granados or Albeniz pieces, so you will not find the sheet music for them anywhere, because they do not exist. Regards.

Julian Ward
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Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby Julian Ward » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:46 am

If you listen to Bream's recording of Sevilla you will notice it is quite different to the version he played live. All these pieces are far better off learning via any reasonable guitar transcription and then just refer to the piano score. They are in the same key on this piece which makes the job easier. Some things are impossible to include but some of the transcriptions have completely invented passages which were definitely not in the piano score. Simon Dinnigan's arrangement of this is absolutely superb if you can find a recording of that (none of his arrangements were published) you will like it I'm sure

Lovemyguitar
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Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby Lovemyguitar » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:35 pm

Julian Ward wrote:If you listen to Bream's recording of Sevilla you will notice it is quite different to the version he played live...

Indeed it is, if you are referring to his live performance of Sevilla in that 1978 video on the 'tube. For his 1983 recording of Albeniz and Granados, he did all new transcriptions of the pieces (as to which version he played live thereafter, I do not know).

Julian Ward
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Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby Julian Ward » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:14 pm

Yes - exactly that. And in the master class videos you will see different again! One big difference is the section that comes just before the fast scale passage, the bass voice is altered which changes the implied harmony to a major chord by using a B natural as opposed to a Bb which implied it as minor.

The piano score definitely says Bb but I notice some pianists have done exactly as Bream which makes me think there is an alternative piano arrangement too.
Last edited by Julian Ward on Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lovemyguitar
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Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby Lovemyguitar » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:43 pm

Thanks, that's interesting about the piano score -- I've not seen any piano scores for the piece. I wonder if some of the changes in guitar versions (such as the B nat rather than B flat) are due to the guitar itself, as to what may work (or not work) as well on the instrument (although that wouldn't explain different piano versions that you've heard -- unless those pianists happened to have heard and liked the guitar versions better!).

As for the masterclasses, I had the impression that the students brought their own scores, and in fact, in some of those BBC masterclasses with Bream, you may have noticed that he occasionally comments on camera about their scores (or parts thereof), noting that what he personally uses is different.

Julian Ward
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Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby Julian Ward » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:42 am

Yes he does - but he does a lot of demonstration and you will notice that when he does he plays his own version and not the score in front of him. What is interesting when you watch these classes is that he tries to get the student to change things that they have clearly spent an awful long time perfecting, to be the same as him. I remember the lady playing Sevilla who was pretty damned good but yet he still wanted her to play (that fast scale passage for example) in 'his' position which she already played brilliantly in hers!

Lovemyguitar
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Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby Lovemyguitar » Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:59 am

I certainly won't criticise Bream's style: he's the Maestro, not me. When he does try to get the students to play things the way he does, he provides good musical reasons for it, because (as he explains) he thinks that it is the best way to bring out the spirit of the music, to highlight the different voices, etc., whatever the case may be. I suspect that he always tries a variety of things before settling on what he thinks and/or feels is the best way to play a piece (based on his quite considerable musical experience and knowledge), and that is what he puts forth. One can, of course, take it or leave it, and that is the general idea of a "masterclass": one either accepts what the "master" offers, or they do not, but presumably the students are there because they like or want what he has to offer. Having heard Bream play and being deeply inspired by how vibrant and alive the music sounds (more so than with any other players I've heard), I'd be inclined to take his advice, or at least, to give it a try (and I do!), but of course, others may disagree, which is fine, too. The main thing is to enjoy the music, in whatever way one chooses and/or is able!

Julian Ward
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Re: Sevilla transcriptions

Postby Julian Ward » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:33 am

I still haven't heard any recordings close to his of these Albeniz works. Totally agree - the master - it doesn't always make you a great teacher mind... But who wouldn't take advice from him?? Lol.


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