What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

A "classroom" environment for exchanging Technical Questions & Answers, How-To's, music theory concepts, etc.
yotamz

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by yotamz » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:38 am

anacrusis wrote:
John O wrote: I don't know, Anacrusis, I think we might have a winner here for the most ignorant comment on this forum. We're probably splitting hairs at some point, though.
I think you may be right!

Yotamz, your extremely analytical listening skills have earned you this top honor. You should be proud.
Is it really? Or are you guys just upset because I enjoy bringing up the absurdity of your supposedly enlightened musical taste? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

anacrusis

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by anacrusis » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:09 am

yotamz wrote:
Is it really? Or are you guys just upset because I enjoy bringing up the absurdity of your supposedly enlightened musical taste? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I never referred to my musical tastes as being "enlightened", that came directly from you.

You also never made any valid points against the piece. Away From is certainly too complex to be judged without a study of the score and several dedicated listens.

For the record, I seriously doubt any 5 year old kid with a guitar would be able to accurately reproduce any part of the piece.

19thcenturyguitarist

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by 19thcenturyguitarist » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:22 am

anacrusis wrote: I never referred to my musical tastes as being "enlightened", that came directly from you.

You also never made any valid points against the piece. Away From is certainly too complex to be judged without a study of the score and several dedicated listens.

For the record, I seriously doubt any 5 year old kid with a guitar would be able to accurately reproduce any part of the piece.
This is true! And that really goes for any piece of music. A decent recording and a decent copy of the score is what is required to properly begin an analysis.

yotamz

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by yotamz » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:29 am

I never referred to my musical tastes as being "enlightened", that came directly from you.
Oh please, there are plenty of examples of you condescending over someone else's love of Tarrega or Asturias. Please don't make me mine delcamp for a quote.
For the record, I seriously doubt any 5 year old kid with a guitar would be able to accurately reproduce any part of the piece.
I'll pretend you didn't really say that.
And that really goes for any piece of music. A decent recording and a decent copy of the score is what is required to properly begin an analysis.
How would you go about analyzing music that doesn't have a score, like an improvisation?

19thcenturyguitarist

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by 19thcenturyguitarist » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:05 am

yotamz wrote:
And that really goes for any piece of music. A decent recording and a decent copy of the score is what is required to properly begin an analysis.
How would you go about analyzing music that doesn't have a score, like an improvisation?
Hmmm...Good question. I dont think i would dare try to analyze an improvisation i would just sit back and enjoy. I was referring to the piece anacrusis was referring to. For this particular piece, Away from, I would need the score and the recording however to analyze. I mean, unless your name is W.A. Mozart, there is no way you could analyze a piece without the score, break it down in theory, follow along with a decent recording, ect...

How would you analyze an improvisation yotamz? Is it possible? 12 bar blues improv is easy to follow, I, IV, V chords. Jazz is more complex and i wouldn't dare try. Anyways this thread is most difficult piece for "classical" guitar. When is classical ever improvised? Its structured. That's why Blues and Jazz were invented. To be seperate from the standards of the structured classical mannerism. Little do they know that they are structured too, in the rhythm anyhow. Lead work is free.

anacrusis

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by anacrusis » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:37 am

yotamz wrote:
Oh please, there are plenty of examples of you condescending over someone else's love of Tarrega or Asturias. Please don't make me mine delcamp for a quote.

I'll pretend you didn't really say that.


How would you go about analyzing music that doesn't have a score, like an improvisation?
I'm unaware of any improvisations that contain the level of complexity found in Away From. Are there any improvisations that, when analyzed, are as intricate as say, Cogluotobusisletmesi?

As for an untrained 5 year old being able to play anything that resembles Away From, it is impossible.

Perhaps all your years of playing Tarrega and Asturias has resulted in an inability to comprehend modern music?
:wink:

User avatar
Mark Clifton-Gaultier
Posts: 1039
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:03 pm
Location: England

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:12 am

19thcenturyguitarist wrote:That's why Blues and Jazz were invented. To be seperate from the standards of the structured classical mannerism.
You seem to be suggesting that "Blues" as a genre came about as a direct response to classical music. Surely you can't be serious? Even if it was true it would be a failed attempt - a "12 bar blues" is far more restrictive than sonata form for instance.

In fact your post is littered with misconceptions and errors.
19thcenturyguitarist wrote:When is classical ever improvised?
Classical music was often improvised.
19thcenturyguitarist wrote:How would you analyze an improvisation yotamz? Is it possible ... I mean, unless your name is W.A. Mozart, there is no way you could analyze a piece without the score
We may not all be Mozart but many, many musicians are easily able to analyse music (regardless of whether it is improvised or not) without seeing a score. I don't know how the system works in the US but over here musicians are introduced to this skill at an intermediate stage of their education eg. listening to and remembering a classical or baroque four voice progression which then has to be written down in score form.

The "grade system" also introduces some of these listening skills at an early stage - beginning with simple melodic recognition and distinction between straightforward major and minor triads - culminating with the identification of modulations and extended harmonies. Not everyone is equally good at it of course.
19thcenturyguitarist wrote:Little do they know that they are structured too
Of course they know - the description "12 Bar Blues" (amongst others) is a direct statement about the structure of a particular musical form.
19thcenturyguitarist wrote:they are structured too, in the rhythm anyhow. Lead work is free.
Rhythm can be improvised just as much as "lead" (I assume that you mean melody - which, in any case is composed of pitch and rhythm).

Richard Christie
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:46 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by Richard Christie » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:43 am

19thcenturyguitarist wrote:
yotamz wrote:
Mozart, there is no way you could analyze a piece without the score, break it down in theory, follow along with a decent recording, ect...
.
I wish my old university knew that. Our annual final examinations in Musical Analysis always required exactly that. Always had a 90 min section when some approx 4 or 5min work was played 3 times and we were required to analyse it by ear. From Hayden to Messiaen :)
The guitar, causes dreams to weep.
The sobs of lost souls, escape from its round mouth.
And like the tarantula, it weaves a great star
To snare the sighs,
Which float inside its dark wooden cistern
- Lorca

User avatar
Cary W
Posts: 4641
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:12 pm
Location: North of Montreal

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by Cary W » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:02 am

19thcenturyguitarist wrote:Jazz is more complex and i wouldn't dare try
Look up George Benson plays Stella by Starlight...mind-blowing :!:
2008 Yamaha GC31C Indian/cedar D'Addario EJ46
1987 Yamaha GC-3 Indian/cedar D'Addario EJ45

paulcroft

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by paulcroft » Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:14 pm

19thcenturyguitarist wrote: That's why Blues and Jazz were invented. To be seperate from the standards of the structured classical mannerism. Little do they know that they are structured too, in the rhythm anyhow. Lead work is free.
Here here! The repetitive four in a bar of jazz and the ubiquitous blues major seventh spring to mind immediately. There are many records of conversations between black plantation workers where they would say: "I'm getting right fed up with the restricted structures of classical mannersism." Eventually one of them repeated that line three times before, with a sudden surge of inspiration, adding: "...and my baby ain't comin' home no more."

And so the blues was born.

Paul.

ps: I'm slightly less authoritative on the beginnings of jazz but am fairly confident that a five-year old child comes into it somewhere.

User avatar
Mark Clifton-Gaultier
Posts: 1039
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:03 pm
Location: England

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by Mark Clifton-Gaultier » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:43 pm

Cary W wrote:Look up George Benson plays Stella by Starlight
One off my favourites list ... and a particularly good version (assuming you mean the 1989).
PaulCroft wrote:Here here!
Where, where?
Last edited by Mark Clifton-Gaultier on Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

paulcroft

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by paulcroft » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:51 pm

Mark Clifton-Gaultier wrote:
PaulCroft wrote:Here here!
Where, where?
Where what?

paulcroft

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by paulcroft » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:57 pm

Aaaah! I see what you mean!! I was sure I'd seen it with that spelling before but you're right I'm wrong. [Normly I'm a jolly good speller].

19thcenturyguitarist

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by 19thcenturyguitarist » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:27 pm

And to think somwhow i made it through college all by myself...
Thanks for the education Mark. My father and his side of the family are from the UK so I have great respect for the English. I still have relatives in Hyde Park that we write to for Christmas ect...Over here in the US we do have proper music education...if you go that route anyhow. I only took classical training and never took one blues or jazz class in my life, despising that type of music with a passion believe it or not. Yes, yes they are both American based but so is Boeing and Microsoft and i dont own a jet or a P.C. I have everything Apple...Lap top, Ipod, etc...Plus it was 1am when i was writing and obviously i was out of coffee hahaha...So i was merely speaking from personal experiance and not in a formal educated way. Like, i have "jammed" with blues players and to me it seemed like there was a simple, A,D,A,E,(D-E) chord progression and i just played the lead, penatonic scales freely. Quite boring. IMHO! of coarse. Everything i say isnt law its just my opinion, thats all. But i certainly gave you a field day now didnt i !!! lol...

SO...ANYWAYS,

@ Mark, what is your favorite music to play? composers and pieces?

paulcroft

Re: What is the most difficult piece for classical guitar?

Post by paulcroft » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:39 pm

19thcenturyguitarist wrote:
@ Mark, what is your favorite music to play? composers and pieces?
Hi 19th! I think I can answer that for ole Markie: we're currently adding to our duo repertoire with some Everly Brothers songs that I used to sing with my own brother, many years ago. [I'm singing them myself at my forthcoming wedding, as it will save money on musicians: in fact I've even invited Mark in the hope that he won't then feel right about accepting any money].

Anyway I think I can quite safely assume from his quiet, pensive demeanour that he really, really likes them - although he's finding some of the barre chords a bit tricky. "Let It Be Me" is the one I shall be singing to Jane and, to be fair, he isn't finding that one too difficult.

Cheers!!

Paul.

Return to “Classical Guitar Classes”