D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

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Angela Zhao
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Angela Zhao » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:43 am

Hi classmate
This is my Luys De Narvaez Diferencias Sobre Guardame Las Vacas.
I'm sorry for some mistakes at last several bars.
It's not easy to make a record without any mistakes,they always appear here and there :oops:
Do you have any good methods to make a better record? :merci:

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Rick Beauregard » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:28 am

Really good Angela! :bravo:
I detected two things that may not have been performance errors, but possibly reading/rhythm errors. In measure 7 the last three beats, you treat them as one voice, and so give the A and E/E each a half note duration. But the E/E chord should come in on beat 5, because it is part of the bass voice.

Also in measure 27, the scale has a quarter note in the middle of it, the E, that you play though. Look at that measure again. This may have just been a recording error.

As far as getting recordings perfect, I don't think that is our goal. If it was it would take forever to record these things!!! Even professionals do multiple takes and editing on recordings. In live performance we make errors sometimes, but we try to play through them, which you did beautifully in this performance. Only we Delcampers will heard the errors.
Last edited by Rick Beauregard on Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Rick Beauregard » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:32 am

Hello Dee Oh Fivers. Here is my first cut at Tarrega's Estudio. I like this little piece. Not perfect, a couple flubs.


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All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
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_/)

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Angela Zhao
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Angela Zhao » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:58 am

Hi Rick
Thank you watch my video,Yes you are right,
in measure 27 the E can't keep the accurate duration, and I must keep the sound level, make the bass and treble different.
And also thank you give a good comment about making better record.

You video is very good. it has a clean sound and good rhythm, and the whole song has good musicality.
I feel the mistake what I made you all aware of and avoid them.
On 5 measure the E duration not enough, maybe just a record problem.
:bravo: :merci:

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:26 pm

:bravo: Angela, good job and the hemiolas were accented very clearly!

I agree with Rick. As you progress with a piece, the mistakes will get smaller and harder to notice (even a note played with slightly different tone that was intended, or too loud or too soft, could be considered a mistake), but getting a perfect recording will be very difficult, or even impossible depending on your definition of "perfect". To look at it in positive way, noticing the mistakes yourself is a good thing, because then you'll know what things to improve and concentrate your practice on.

Rick, your Tarrega sounded very good! However, I think you should aim to increase the tempo. I took out a metronome and tried to measure your tempo, but it turned out to be practically impossible because your tempo varies so much. It's not so noticeable without a metronome because your tempo is so slow to begin with it (perhaps ~40bpm on average, which is half of the indicated tempo). The downside of a slow tempo is that it enables you to further slow down for the hard parts without even noticing it yourself, which has two consequences: First, you won't notice the difficult parts that require more work (or at least the other students won't notice them). Second, you'll be able to use fingerings that may turn out to be infeasible when using faster tempo, such as using 1-2 for the first hammer-on in measure 16, instead of indicated 3-4. Using pinky hammer-on will also strengthen your pinky, so you'll miss that beneficial aspect of the study.

From your posts, I know how you feel about the use of rubato, and I mostly agree with you on that. However, playing with constant tempo has its benefits, as mentioned above. And as this is an estudio, it should be approached as a study.

You added an extra 'b' note at the end of measure 7. I believe that with a faster and more constant tempo you would have noticed yourself that there is an extra 1/16 note to the duration of that measure.

I'm hoping that you won't take my feedback in a negative way. It certainly isn't intended as such! There is obviously a lot of good things in your playing, such as the tone and musicality. And I tend to forget that I am taking this course for the 3rd time, so my focus is obviously not so much in developing muscle memory for these pieces, allowing me to concentrate on fine tuning the technical details.
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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Rick Beauregard » Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:51 pm

Marko Räsänen wrote:
I'm hoping that you won't take my feedback in a negative way. It certainly isn't intended as such! There is obviously a lot of good things in your playing, such as the tone and musicality. And I tend to forget that I am taking this course for the 3rd time, so my focus is obviously not so much in developing muscle memory for these pieces, allowing me to concentrate on fine tuning the technical details.
Not at all, Marko. Your feedback is very valuable to me. All accurate and well thought out. My tempo on these early takes is often too slow and still in practice mode. By the time I work it up to tempo I am often well tired of the piece and move on. Or it makes it to my list of repertoire and I keep playing it regularly. If I make compromises/choices it is usually too slow the tempo In favor of tone or musicality. Your point about the study aspect is right on though. I forget that it's about learning the technique not always just making music. I think that's what you meant last lesson regarding Campanella now that I look back on it.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:05 pm

There's nothing wrong (ever!) in making beautiful music, even if it means slowing down the piece from the intended tempo. I typically use various tempi for any piece during practice, sometimes intentionally playing much slower than I'm capable of, just to listen to the sound of it. It's just that some pieces really only become music when they're played fast, so it's good to think about that as motivation for the tedious technical study.
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John Montes
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by John Montes » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:37 am

Be mindful of tuning before recording :-)
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Esteban Crespi
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Esteban Crespi » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:13 pm

Hello,
first let me congratulate both Angela and Rick for the quality of your work.

Rick it is true that the "Estudio en forma de Minuetto" should be played a little faster, but it really sounds very good at it is! you play it with a lot of musicality and it is a pleasure to hear it.

Angela very well both recordings, you really achieve very fast a complete technical control over the piezes! You play them very smoothly without almost any noticiable error (I'm really envious :-) ). The only improvement I see is that the Estudio sound to me a little plain, but it is probably that the quality of the recording.

Here is my first version of the "Diferencias", hopefully it will not be he last if I can manage to record it again, as it is terrible!. It has more wrong than rights, but it is the best of several tries and I feel that if I don't upload it now I will never be in time with the "Estudio".


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Stewart Doyle
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Stewart Doyle » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:13 pm

Hi everyone,

As usual, I'm a bit behind with recording, so as it's likely to be the weekend before I get chance, I thought I should catch up on my fellow students.
Well played Angela - as Marko said there are a few rhythmic errors in the Tarrega. Your Diferencias are played at a tremendous tempo. I dread to think how many mistakes I would make if I tried to play at that speed. Given your obvious technical ability, I wonder if you could play along with Prof. Delcamp's recording of the Tarrega study as a way of spotting and 'fixing' the rhythmic issues. I'm not sure whether that's the right thing to do in terms of learning though. I'm not a very good sight-reader and I need to force myself to read rather than 'playing by ear', so the suggestion of playing along might not be the best option.
Rick - after Marko's comment I looked back at my timings from last year. I made the comment:

Here is my Tarrega, still slower than most, but about 20 secs faster than last year....
(I know speed isn't everything, but when you tend to play most pieces as slow as I do, I see it as a sign of improvement!)


I think my speed was less to do with rubato and more to do with avoiding mistakes, but it'll be interesting to see how I do this year. I think some sections of the piece can be played with some humour and exaggeration, but I'm not sure how that fits with the nature of a 'study'

Esteban - that's certainly not terrible. Your ending in particular was very well played. I looked back at my version from last year as I thought my ending was comically bad, but I must have been thinking of another piece - I slow down so much though I almost stop. Your ending is very fluent.

:bravo: everyone!
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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Rick Beauregard » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:52 pm

Thank you Stewart and Esteban for your comments. That's a good effort Esteban. Keep working at it. That painting behind you adds considerably to the ambiance of this renaissance tune by Narvaez.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

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Angela Zhao
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Angela Zhao » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:08 am

Thanks for Esteban and Stewart, thank your watch my video, and give me comments.

Esteban : Yes, you are right, I really need to let my song have musically, that's not easy, maybe more practice. :)
Form your video, I can understand how many efforts you try, actually, I always have these mistake, when speed up, the fingers alomst can't find the accurate position. I think that some masters said "relax", if one totally relax oneself, maybe it's not very hard thing to do.
and when first learn new song, it's better not paly it wrong than play it fast.whatever, you get more progress! congratulate to you!

Stewart:
I wonder if you could play along with Prof. Delcamp's recording of the Tarrega study as a way of spotting and 'fixing' the rhythmic issues.
You give a good methods for me, sometimes I play song with Delcamp's recording, and as Tarrega, I have not spend more time on it, that' have some mistakes. but if Marko not mentions, maybe I can't find it. So, have moderator and classmates like yours is really important! :merci:

:merci: for everyone! I'm happy with your! :D

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Rick Beauregard » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:08 pm

Despite having played this piece more than any other over the past 35 years, albeit with standard tuning, I am not able to get a recording without errors or small memory lapses. But it is better than ever, being slightly easier to play with the F# tuning of the third string. But I had to relearn it. I did keep a couple fingerings from the previous version in places. More preference for the sound than habit or ease of playing. I also like it played with a capo, so that's included here too. What version do you prefer?

Thanks for listening. :bye:


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All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

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Angela Zhao
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Angela Zhao » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:17 am

Hi Rick
:bravo: You paly it with two version.
With a capo,the sound is more bright, so the song is more lively,
without capo, the song is a little sombre in the first servel bars,but it can give a contrast with the bars on second parts,
It's just my personal thought, maybe not right. :)
:merci:

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:34 pm

:bravo: Esteban and Rick!

Esteban, you need some more practice with the difficult 3rd and 4th diferencia. 1st and 2nd are already very good!

Rick, I like the diferencias played at lower key, and therefore prefer your no-capo version. Your playing sounds very nice, even with the memory lapses and slowing down near the end. I never try to memorize any of the pieces, although some pieces end up memorized nevertheless. Even then I need the sheet music in front of me, especially when nervous about recording. I'd still suggest to practice the ending of the last diferencia, so that you won't need to slow down so much.

My family is away this weekend, so I could finally start experimenting with mid-side recording using the microphones I already had. Here's an image of the setup:
MS_setup.jpg
As mid-side recorded audio track required decoding, I decided to add a touch of reverb while I was at it, to compensate for the acoustically dry recording room. I hope you won't find the reverb too intrusive. I think my playing could have been better in couple of days after letting my nails grow a bit, as I shortened them a bit too much yesterday. Anyways, here are today's recordings.


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