D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

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Stewart Doyle
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Stewart Doyle » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:35 pm

Hi everyone

I see that Rick and Marko have uploaded videos since my last visit. I'll take a look at the videos as soon as I can, but after a very frustrating afternoon session, I just want to get my recording submitted! After (enough, but not too many!) several takes of the Differences, I was all set to upload them, only to find that the guitar sounded like it had been through a 'phaser' sound effect. I tried a few things, but eventually resorted to another laptop which gave other problems, but finally got the low resolution Differences seen below. I then went back to the original laptop and all seemed OK, so recorded the Tarrega only to find the 'phaser' effect again. Eventually tracked it down (I think) to a bluetooth pedal I use to turn the page on my ipad. So, you may notice the pauses and additional mistakes when I touch the screen. Anyway, enough moaning, here are my recordings!


Youtube



Youtube


Thanks

Stewart
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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Rick Beauregard » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:20 pm

:bravo: Marko!

Very nicely played. I am working on getting the Tarrega up to tempo as you suggested and modeled beautifully!

GLV: you left more space between the differencias than I am used to hearing. Before this lesson I tended not to wait the full 6 beats, as some recordings I've heard tend to do. You go more like 8. But as variations this is completely ok I think.

Sound is great. Question: can you use the remote mic + the two XY mics on the camera/recorder at the same time with your recorder? I'm thinking if getting the Q4 or Q8. Is there phantom power on the q4?
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:41 pm

Hi Stewart,

I was surprised with the fast tempo you started the Diferencias with :D I think you did really well with that piece, at least until the last diferencia. I perhaps would have wanted some more musical expression with diferencias 1&2. In measures 17-18 I think you'll need to play the 3rd and 5th beat notes to their full duration. It does create some extension between the fingers, but it's good practice for finger independence. 1st and 6th beat could be played even shorter than you did, and I think the damping at those places sounded a bit indefinite. I think you should damp with right hand to achieve a sharper non-legato effect. For the 4th diferencia you'll just need more work.

Regarding the Tarrega piece, you the first part well. I struggle getting vibrato to that high f# note, as do you. The 2nd part was difficult for you, as it is for me as well, at least when recording. It's very technical, and the barre in measure 12 is difficult to get clean with the 3rd string 'a' not buzzing and sustaining. I noticed that your fingers were getting tired during that section. I think we may have talked about this before, and I think I suggested lowering the guitar action, or alternatively using lower tension strings? Are you using red Augustines? Have you tried the black ones? The trebles are the same, but the basses are lower tension.
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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:53 pm

:merci: Rick!

Funny you should mention the pauses between the diferencias. I don't usually leave that much pause either, but today it was difficult for me to get a cleanish take with no major mistakes, so I thought that instead of trying to wrestle the whole piece at once, why not do it one diferencia at a time? And from that idea I think came the longer pauses. It is of course all single take, but I think mental attitude of taking it as a series of sub-challenges instead of a single big one really helped. It was good to have those little rests between the variations to get some of that recording tension to go away. And I, too, figured it would be ok, because they're variations.

Unfortunately I cannot record with the internal mics of Q4 when there's a cable attached to ext.in. It's either or. No phantom power either, and the input plug is 0.14" jack. No USB, no XLR. But it's fine for me because I have the mixer with phantom powered XLRs and RCA out.
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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Rick Beauregard » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:04 pm

Marko Räsänen wrote::merci: Rick!
Unfortunately I cannot record with the internal mics of Q4 when there's a cable attached to ext.in. It's either or. No phantom power either, and the input plug is 0.14" jack. No USB, no XLR. But it's fine for me because I have the mixer with phantom powered XLRs and RCA out.
Aha, that's what I thought, but the product specs were vague on that point. I think the Q8 has both phantom with the XLR jack, but not sure about the latter either, and you can use the external mic as an additional track with the X-Y. Pricier though.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Rick Beauregard » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:07 pm

My friend and guitar maker Steve Ganz just call to invite me to use a spare ticket to see Pepe Romero in Vancouver tonight! Pepe was my teacher's teacher back in the late 70's and 80's. So I guess I won't have as much recording time today.
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

Stewart Doyle
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Stewart Doyle » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:26 am

:bravo: Rick and Marko

Rick, I enjoyed listening to both your recordings; Both looked relaxed performances compared to mine, perhaps more so for the first, non-capo version. That might be why I preferred it. I liked the look of your alternate fingerings in the last difference, I should probably look at trying those.

Marko, I wasn't sure about the reverb on the Tarrega. It's a piece where the lower strings tend to resonate at times, and I found I was a bit more conscious of that because of the reverb. If you used any in the differences then it was very subtle - it sounded great whatever! On the Tarrega 3030 trill (bar 10 for example) I thought you were playing it differently to M. Delcamp and was going to ask why. [Perhaps hoping for once, I could point something useful out!] Needless to say, after checking, I realised I had been playing it differently, perhaps wrongly!
I think 'tired' is about right. The frustration of recording what seemed my best versions, only to hear them sound distorted and 'phased' was very disheartening. You are right about the discussions around lowering the action. Thanks for the idea about the strings though, I will try that first. I have gone from D'addario hard to normal tension, but other than that have not tried any other strings.
Spot on about my first two differences, listening to your version and Rick's emphasised that.

Best wishes

Stewart
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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:41 am

Stewart Doyle wrote:Marko, I wasn't sure about the reverb on the Tarrega. It's a piece where the lower strings tend to resonate at times, and I found I was a bit more conscious of that because of the reverb. If you used any in the differences then it was very subtle - it sounded great whatever!
Actually both pieces were recorded at exact same levels, same mic positions, and the same (subtle) amount (and quality) of reverb. Yet, I would agree with you that on Tarrega it seems more audible. I'll post a version of Tarrega without the added reverb for comparison. I think what we're hearing are the resonances of the bass strings, and it just sounds like reverb, but I'd like to hear what you think.
D05_Lesson02_Estudio en forma de no reverb.mp3
Stewart Doyle wrote:On the Tarrega 3030 trill (bar 10 for example) I thought you were playing it differently to M. Delcamp and was going to ask why. [Perhaps hoping for once, I could point something useful out!] Needless to say, after checking, I realised I had been playing it differently, perhaps wrongly!
I listened to your recording again, but cannot tell how are you doing the trill differently? Are you referring to delaying the first pull-off? I don't think there's any right or wrong way to do it. Just do it the way you think sounds best.
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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:41 am

One more recording before tearing down the setup: Lady Laiton's almain


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Stewart Doyle
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Stewart Doyle » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:28 pm

:bravo: Marko, Simply superb! I'm tempted to have a look at that piece myself, although I won't be able to get anywhere near that standard. The sound is great, but you've also captured how I feel Dowland should be played. [Again, like the differences, I guess the setup including reverb is the same, and to my ears is subtle enough to not be heard in itself. I think it might just be the resonances in the Tarrega that 'add' to the reverb somehow. I probably need to listen via headphones to do a proper comparison, but i think I prefer the 'clean' version of the Tarrega.
I'm playing the 3030 trill as evenly spaced rather than letting the C# ring and then pulling off for 030 - or delaying the pull-off as you describe. I agree it's not a big issue, but I'm always a bit annoyed with myself when I realise I haven't listened to our teacher's version enough.
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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Marko Räsänen » Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:13 pm

Thank you for your comment, Stewart! You're right that the setup was exactly the same for Dowland piece as for the previous recordings.

The difference between reverb and no-reverb version of Tarrega is much clearer when listening via headphones. The no-reverb version is a bit too much "in your face" for my taste when listening via headphones, although it probably depends on the headphones as well. When listening via speakers, the natural reverb of the listening room will likely mask most of the differences.
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Angela Zhao
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Angela Zhao » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:03 am

:bravo: Marko
Your Lady Laiton's almain is wonderful, its sound is very clean, good rhythm and musicality.
I like the tone of the guitar, I'm curious as the guitar you play.
:bravo:

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Marko Räsänen
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Marko Räsänen » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:02 am

Thank you, Angela! The guitar is Cordoba C12 spruce / Indian rosewood.
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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Rick Beauregard » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:00 am

Here is revision 1 of the Tarrega Estudio. Still lots of errors, but I am getting it closer to the prescribed tempo.

Youtube
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

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Rick Beauregard
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Re: D05 Classical guitar lesson 02

Post by Rick Beauregard » Wed Oct 26, 2016 12:02 am

Your Dowland was superb Marko!!
All this time I thought I was making music; it was making me.
2015 Steve Ganz "Solidarity"
1980 Dauphin D30
1962 Fender pre-CBS P-Bass
National Triolian Uke ca.1930
Almost as many fly rods as guitars
_/) _/)
_/)

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