Why am I here instead of someone else?

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
Lovemyguitar
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by Lovemyguitar » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:30 am

glassynails wrote:.... I think you ultimately have to step outside yourself and look down on imaginary conscious bodies though to figure out these questions. I'm gonna try that later, but I'm still tired and am going to take a nap first. ...
Yes, good luck with that. After a nap, you'll be able to answer all of these questions that people have been asking for centuries, but all of whom have failed to come up with a definitive answer.
glassynails wrote:...None of you have ever wondered that if you're conscious now, why could you not be conscious again after you die? Am I the only one that has wondered this?...
Of course you're not the only person who has ever wondered this. Volumes (and volumes, and volumes...) of books have been written about this very subject, over the past few millennia or so.

It is really charming that you've suddenly discovered philosophical enquiry and are full of questions, but may I suggest that you actually read a book or two about these things (because, seriously, there are probably hundreds of thousands of books about these subjects)? I assure you that some of the most brilliant minds who have ever lived (and countless others) have discussed all of these ideas that you are talking about, at great length and in great detail.

You are asking these huge questions about complex and profound ideas, as if anybody can just give you a sound-bite for an answer (well, some have tried!), but there are no simple answers, because these are not simple questions. They are interesting questions, sure, but you would really benefit from learning more about the different ideas on these topics that others have suggested and discussed (again, which they've been doing for millennia!). If you do that, if you read a few books, (hopefully) you will realise that one of the reasons why people aren't answering these questions of yours is that it is simply not possible to do so, at least, not with the sort of the simple answers that you seem to expect.

glassynails
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by glassynails » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:04 am

rikart wrote:
"You may not believe that you have a "self", ...."
Actually, I did not say that I do not belief that I have a 'self', or there was no such thing as the 'self'. In fact, I don't believe it. I know it. My argument was that there is a body, and there is a 'self', but that in my reality the two are inseparable, and part of the whole. If I do not have either body or 'self'', I do not have anything, for without one I do not have the other. And with that there is no me. As I say, in my reality.


I wish you well, and hope you find your answers.
I actually believe also that the body and 'self' are one. I of course don't know this for sure, but it's what I think. I believe if you chop off my head I won't be conscious anymore.
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

glassynails
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by glassynails » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:16 am

Lovemyguitar wrote:
glassynails wrote:.... I think you ultimately have to step outside yourself and look down on imaginary conscious bodies though to figure out these questions. I'm gonna try that later, but I'm still tired and am going to take a nap first. ...
Yes, good luck with that. After a nap, you'll be able to answer all of these questions that people have been asking for centuries, but all of whom have failed to come up with a definitive answer.
:lol:
Lovemyguitar wrote: It is really charming that you've suddenly discovered philosophical enquiry and are full of questions, but may I suggest that you actually read a book or two about these things (because, seriously, there are probably hundreds of thousands of books about these subjects)?
Ha, I've been asking these type of questions since I was a child, but you're correct that I haven't read much on them because I always assume that those people also don't really know what they're talking about, since really no one can! :lol:


No hard feeling, it's a light hearted discussion and I appreciate your response. Peace and love, Glassy
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

glassynails
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by glassynails » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:55 am

Hmmm this may fit sort of what I'm talking about with regard to consciousness

Youtube
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

PeteJ
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by PeteJ » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:53 am

glassynails wrote:I actually believe also that the body and 'self' are one. I of course don't know this for sure, but it's what I think. I believe if you chop off my head I won't be conscious anymore.
It's odd that believe this yet ask a lot of questions that suggest you don't know it. I never quite understand why people make up their minds before establishing the facts. Why not be agnostic?

Lovemyguitar
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by Lovemyguitar » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:03 pm

glassynails wrote:...Ha, I've been asking these type of questions since I was a child, but you're correct that I haven't read much on them because I always assume that those people also don't really know what they're talking about, since really no one can! :lol:

No hard feeling, it's a light hearted discussion and I appreciate your response. Peace and love, Glassy
Oh, I see -- you are not actually interested in what anyone else has to say! My mistake: I thought you were genuinely interested in learning something. Even if other people don't have a definitive answer to these questions, they can still shed light on them by providing different perspectives that may not have occurred to you, but if that doesn't interest you, fine. Incessantly asking questions but never actually seeking or listening to any answers is rather like being hungry but never eating, but whatever. Peace and love to you, too! :bye:

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Jstanley01
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by Jstanley01 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:53 pm

Sometimes I find things like the design inference, the specified complexity found in nature, and the fine tuning arguments to be persuasive that there has to be a *CENSORED*, and that going to all that trouble, *CENSORED* must have a plan for me and my kind. Even then, I'm pretty sure that I represent the sperm that won, and that it was quite a race against my 300 million fellows, to and through the cervix and up the correct fallopian tube (it was a toss up) to be the first one to touch home plate. Other times I think I am really living in a vat, and all you people are figments of some drunk programmer's demented imagination. And a lot of times I'll think, "I wonder who it was who coined the term, 'I think therefore I drink'?" Then I will think, "Oh yeah, that was me. I think"...

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:36 am

Lovemyguitar wrote: Oh, I see -- you are not actually interested in what anyone else has to say! My mistake...
Welcome to glassy world! Delcamp is his echo chamber :lol:

gitgeezer
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by gitgeezer » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:02 pm

Whether glassy actually pays attention to what we say on glassy threads is of little importance. The important thing is that we acquire a wealth of vital knowledge, available nowhere else in the known universe, that improves our lives in every way.

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Andrew Fryer
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by Andrew Fryer » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:19 pm

True, it does give us a chance to put into words thoughts that, if they remained merely cerebral, may be less well formed than we imagine.
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PeteJ
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by PeteJ » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:50 am

glassynails wrote:
Lovemyguitar wrote:
glassynails wrote:.... I think you ultimately have to step outside yourself and look down on imaginary conscious bodies though to figure out these questions. I'm gonna try that later, but I'm still tired and am going to take a nap first. ...
Yes, good luck with that. After a nap, you'll be able to answer all of these questions that people have been asking for centuries, but all of whom have failed to come up with a definitive answer.
:lol:
Lovemyguitar wrote: It is really charming that you've suddenly discovered philosophical enquiry and are full of questions, but may I suggest that you actually read a book or two about these things (because, seriously, there are probably hundreds of thousands of books about these subjects)?
Ha, I've been asking these type of questions since I was a child, but you're correct that I haven't read much on them because I always assume that those people also don't really know what they're talking about, since really no one can! :lol:
This is an assumption and it is not a correct one. All the answers are there if you look. You won't find them in the university reading list but they're all there in the literature. Your problem will be that you won't recognise them as answers without a lot of groundwork, so the comment from lovemyguitar seems spot on.

I feel that the problem for the layman is that we tend to assume that the philosophy department is reliable. It is not. One has to get out of the building to make anything like progress, as history makes very clear.

If you're serious I'd suggest distance learning. Maybe check out the Pathways School of Philosophy based at Sheffield University. You won't learn the secrets of the universe but you will be able to get to grips with what the western academic tradition make of them which is a base from which you can kick off your own enquiry, now informed by the thoughts of many well-known thinkers who have failed in theirs.

But please don't assume that nobody knows the answers to these questions. Once you assume this you're dead in the water and will lose all ambition. Lots of people know the answers.

glassynails
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by glassynails » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:16 am

The only thing that I know is that right now I'm conscious (or at least it feels like it to me). This is proof to me that I can at either a later time or was in the past conscious inside another body. I could've been conscious as an ant, a rat, a bird, or any other living entity. OR consciousness is something entirely different from what you and I think it is.

We are all conscious and here in this time and space. Yes, we will all someday cease to be conscious. We didn't exist before we were born and we did and then we die. How do we know that we did not experience life before this one as another being? If you laugh at that idea, then you're laughing also at the idea that you are here now and were born of two people. My point is is that it happened once. Why can it now happen all over again and you be someone else in another body all over again?

I would say the same of all of you. Why are YOU conscious? Why can you not be conscious again inside another living body? You'll say, well because we only get one life. How do you know that? How do you know this phenomenon has not happened in the past or won't again in the future? You don't know.
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:50 am

glassynails wrote:How do we know that we did not experience life before this one as another being? If you laugh at that idea, then you're laughing also at the idea that you are here now and were born of two people.
That is what you might call a non sequitur. The first statement in no way requires, or even implies the second. My personal advice to you would be to study and employ logic, a fundamental tool of thought. If logic languishes unused we are living in the land of the Jabberwocky.

glassynails
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by glassynails » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:13 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote:
glassynails wrote:How do we know that we did not experience life before this one as another being? If you laugh at that idea, then you're laughing also at the idea that you are here now and were born of two people.
That is what you might call a non sequitur. The first statement in no way requires, or even implies the second. My personal advice to you would be to study and employ logic, a fundamental tool of thought. If logic languishes unused we are living in the land of the Jabberwocky.
So, how is it not logical to have had past consciousness? Again, I'm conscious now and it will becomes 'past' someday. Does that mean I cannot be conscious again as someone else?

My point is this: The FACT that I'm here conscious now is PROOF that consciousness HAPPENS. This event COULD happen again and I could experience it as another entity.
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

glassynails
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by glassynails » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:28 pm

See even other people have asked this question! I'm not the only one! :o

https://www.reddit.com/r/philosophy/com ... eone_else/
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

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