Why am I here instead of someone else?

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
6strings

Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by 6strings » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:41 am

petermc61 wrote:I simply don't believe everything has to be reduced to atoms and a physical dimension. You appear to. We will have to disagree on that point it seems. :D
Well it certainly depends on what you mean with "everything" :-).

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petermc61
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by petermc61 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:26 am

6strings wrote:
petermc61 wrote:I simply don't believe everything has to be reduced to atoms and a physical dimension. You appear to. We will have to disagree on that point it seems. :D
Well it certainly depends on what you mean with "everything" :-).
That is very true. You ruled out consciousness above which I would have thought was one possibility. Tell me, is there anything in your worldview that is not reducible to physical properties? Morals, ethics, love - for example.

Peter

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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by rojarosguitar » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:38 am

Maybe you are someone else?
Music is a big continent with different landscapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

6strings

Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by 6strings » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:49 am

What have I ruled consciousness out from and how? And why would my worldview reduce moral and love to physical properties? Ethics == moral, at least for philosophers, and than you will have to define in what context you would like to speak about emotions such as love or hate. I am quite sure we can speak about them in many contexts and at many levels, and I am also pretty sure that those contexts does not have to be mutualy exclusive. I am quite sure a physian would speak about those terms at different level then sociologist or psycologist.

Can you maybe tell us what are those things for you? Can you describe them all with one theory, or how would you like to speak about them? Is that what you ment by "everything", emotions and values or is there something more to it?

Is it important for you that my worldview is very different from yours? Would you be dissapointed if we came to same conclusion?

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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by petermc61 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:22 am

6strings wrote:What have I ruled consciousness out from and how? And why would my worldview reduce moral and love to physical properties? Ethics == moral, at least for philosophers, and than you will have to define in what context you would like to speak about emotions such as love or hate. I am quite sure we can speak about them in many contexts and at many levels, and I am also pretty sure that those contexts does not have to be mutualy exclusive. I am quite sure a physian would speak about those terms at different level then sociologist or psycologist.

Is it important for you that my worldview is very different from yours? Would you be dissapointed if we came to same conclusion?
First, I agree it is good that we don't have the same worldview. That would be boring.

Just a recap. You said:
6strings wrote:You are a set of atoms and particles comming together and forming your consciousness Thus your (and mine and everybody's else) conscussness is a product of that constellation of particles, however it might come, and when that constellation dissolves, after we die and are consumed by orgnaisms living in dirt, or through burning in a owen, or whatever method you choose, that constellation dissapears and thus the necessary precondition for your consciussnes dissapears as well. Actaually it goes away long before, in the moment we die, since after our death the body can't provide necessary means of air, energy etc to feed the cells and keep all necessary particles in our brain in the right balance and the mechanism we call consciusness dissapears as well as a consequence.

That of course does not proof in any way that there is necessarliy no other form of consciusness but our evidence has not yet found "free form" of consciusness floating around in space, and until then for our sanity we are better to believe in reality we have evidence for. Some people prefer to belive in fantasy stories about afterlife since it supports their human ego, but with just a little common sense and intelligence, prospect of no afterlife is actually even more appealing than any abrahamian promises I have heard yet.
To which I replied:
petermc61 wrote:I simply don't believe everything has to be reduced to atoms and a physical dimension. You appear to.
I thought putting consciousness 'in a physical box' (so as to speak) was interesting. Its not a view I agree with. My agreement or otherwise, however, is not a point I made earlier or is it of great interest to me now. What I am trying to explore is whether, having reduced consciousness (at least as I interpret what you said) to physical properties - is whether you think that is the same for all things e.g. morals, ethics etc also are similarly reducible. I thought that was a simple question, but obviously not since we have gone well away from that question.

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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by Robert Canada » Thu Sep 15, 2016 11:15 am

Wow not sure this relates to guitars?

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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by Catire » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:18 pm

"Be sort of awkward if we all lived in someone else's body.
"The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible." - Oscar Wilde

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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by Andrew Fryer » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:53 pm

glassynails wrote:I realize that my consciousness exists because my brain physically exists and that becomes the "I", but it still doesn't answer the question of "I" being here and experiencing things instead of another "I". I also realize that if my brain ceases to exist that the "I" should cease to exist also, but why won't "I" be here again after that?
Because I'ness is learnt.
Your brain began as a physical object within a physical object and a blank canvas capable of learning and it learnt its and your body's identity from your surroundings, which include other people. Your parents taught you to be you. No-one has ever taught anyone else to be you.

No offence, but I think we might be happier answering your questions if you gave some evidence that you are learning from them, but as soon as we've answered one question, you fire another at us as though it's another groundhog day.
1975 Calatayud y Gisbert, Yamaha CG131S.

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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:06 pm

petermc61 wrote:I simply don't believe everything has to be reduced to atoms and a physical dimension. You appear to. We will have to disagree on that point it seems. :D
I have ( sort of) read 6strings posts, and apart from a certain dogmatic approach to these matters he is not saying that physical matter is all there is. You are misunderstanding his efforts.

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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by glassynails » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:35 pm

Everyone's still missing my point I believe. I'm here now typing. When I die and no longer exist, why cannot this same phenomenon happen all over again and I be inside another body typing again? I realize I won't be Glassynails. I might be a female or someone else, but I'll once again be an "I" "trapped" in a body here on Earth again and experience life all over again. Like I said though, I could also be an insect or an animal ..... who knows maybe even a tree!

Heck, why am I even here at all? Maybe I'll be asking this same old question on this very same forum in 300 years .... who the heck knows!
Andrew Fryer wrote:
glassynails wrote:I realize that my consciousness exists because my brain physically exists and that becomes the "I", but it still doesn't answer the question of "I" being here and experiencing things instead of another "I". I also realize that if my brain ceases to exist that the "I" should cease to exist also, but why won't "I" be here again after that?
Because I'ness is learnt.
Your brain began as a physical object within a physical object and a blank canvas capable of learning and it learnt its and your body's identity from your surroundings, which include other people. Your parents taught you to be you. No-one has ever taught anyone else to be you.

No offence, but I think we might be happier answering your questions if you gave some evidence that you are learning from them, but as soon as we've answered one question, you fire another at us as though it's another groundhog day.
How could I be learning from opinions? No one is offering solid evidence, this is a discussion.

Everyone's still missing my point I believe. I'm here now typing. When I die and no longer exist, why cannot this same phenomenon happen all over again and I be inside another body typing again? I realize I won't be Glassynails. I might be a female or someone else, but I'll once again be an "I" "trapped" in a body here on Earth again and experience life all over again. Like I said though, I could also be an insect or an animal ..... who knows maybe even a tree!

Heck, why am I even here at all? Maybe I'll be asking this same old question on this very same forum in 300 years .... who the heck knows!
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by AndreiKrylov » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:36 pm

glassynails wrote:Everyone's still missing my point I believe. I'm here now typing. When I die and no longer exist, why cannot this same phenomenon happen all over again and I be inside another body typing again? I realize I won't be Glassynails. I might be a female or someone else, but I'll once again be an "I" "trapped" in a body here on Earth again and experience life all over again. Like I said though, I could also be an insect or an animal ..... who knows maybe even a tree!

Heck, why am I even here at all? Maybe I'll be asking this same old question on this very same forum in 300 years .... who the heck knows!
Heck, why am I even here at all? Maybe I'll be asking this same old question on this very same forum in 300 years .... who the heck knows!
Heck, maybe you are not here at all?
I can not touch you...
I cannot see you...
I cannot hear you...
Are you sure you are here?
I am here...SURE...but I know this and people who could see, hear,touch me...
But you? Are sure you are here?
Or maybe you are here and I am there? Or opposite? And if - Maybe you'll be asking this same old question on this very same forum in 300 years ....? then maybe you are not exist yet and physically will be here only in 300 years? and now you are only exists in forms of questions? :)
I'd better speak by music...Please listen Andrei Krylov at Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music, Amazon Prime etc. Thanks!

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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by petermc61 » Thu Sep 15, 2016 10:00 pm

Denian Arcoleo wrote:
petermc61 wrote:I simply don't believe everything has to be reduced to atoms and a physical dimension. You appear to. We will have to disagree on that point it seems. :D
I have ( sort of) read 6strings posts, and apart from a certain dogmatic approach to these matters he is not saying that physical matter is all there is. You are misunderstanding his efforts.
Maybe I am misunderstanding some of the posts. Could well be that one part verbosity plus two parts dogma equals confusion on my part.

Peter

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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by Linda » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:53 am

Maybe, Glassynails the question of "Why am I even here at all?" can only be answered to you, by you as you live your life, day to day and in the present moment. Maybe when you die, your body may not be here, but your spirit lives on. There are so many possibilities and theories, and no clear cut answer to the questions asked. Just a thought as I read all of the prior posts.

linea
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Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by Lovemyguitar » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:56 am

glassynails wrote:...My whole point is "Why cannot this phenomenon that is happening now to each of us (experiencing life inside a body) NOT EVER HAPPEN AGAIN or HAVE PREVIOUSLY HAPPENED?"
I get your point (there is no need to "yell" with capitals, nor to keep repeating it). And, yes, of course, it could happen again, why not? Who said that it cannot happen again? I didn't see/hear anybody make that claim, and so you seem to be arguing against a viewpoint that nobody has expressed (that's called a "straw-man argument", for the record...). The thing is, as you yourself have explained it, the next time around, you could be a totally different "I" in a totally different body, with no recollection of any past life, thus there is absolutely no way to know or to prove that it is an instance of this phenomenon of which you speak, but it is possible that it could happen, sure, again, why not? I don't really know what more a person can say in response to your "point".

I know that you believe these enquiries of yours to be somehow unique, as if you are the first and only person ever to have pondered such things, but do be aware that people have been asking questions like this pretty much as long as there have been people asking questions. There is a whole field of study called "philosophy" in which these sorts of discussions are carried on in incredible detail and complexity, sometimes by people who have devoted their entire lives to the study of such questions. I gather, from some of the responses to these threads of yours, that a few folks around here have probably taken a philosophy course or two, or read some books on the subject, so you may wish to listen to what they have to say, because you might learn something new and interesting about a different way to look at some of these questions that you ask.

6strings

Re: Why am I here instead of someone else?

Post by 6strings » Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:15 pm

Maybe the other side of the moon is made of blue cheese. Maybe there is another universe where everything is made of chocolate.

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