Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitar from Mexico .

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amezcua
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Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitar from Mexico .

Postby amezcua » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:56 pm

Since sending money for a new Palo Escrito guitar the Parachoguitar site has shut it`s doors and all I see is "Site under reconstruction". The seller does not reply .The original e mail correspondence is no help and all I get back is Mailer Daemon . There is a site asking if this is a scam and you have to join Facebook to comment . It tells us the site is 98% safe .But there`s nobody at home. The star of the show who never replies is called Javier Ugalde. He has several sites under his own name so why no replies? Just google Javier Ugalde and you find masses of information about his computer expertise .Too advanced for me .But he can`t manage a reply . So how long does it take to make a new guitar ? How long should I wait ? Three months and counting. Is that too long or am I impatient? October ,November ,December. I need some Palo Escrito in my life .

Dustin McKinney
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Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitarfrom Mexico .

Postby Dustin McKinney » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:13 pm

I've ordered a guitar made by Marlon Navarro in Francisco Navarro's shop in Parocho. It's been 4 weeks, and it was a 4-8 week build. Some luthiers have a waitlist of months/years. Were you on a waitlist?

The whole situation sounds fishy to me. Why wouldn't he reply to you in any way?

If you need the wood, check out the Navarro website. They're reputable.
Kremona Fiesta FC

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bear
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Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitarfrom Mexico .

Postby bear » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:41 pm

My luthier build took 8 months from Michigan, USA
2013 Jeff Medlin '37 Hauser 640mm sp
2006 Michele Della Guistina Concert 10 string 650mm ce
2005 Jose Ramirez 4E 650mm ce
2005 Manuel Rodriguez Model C3F 650mm sp
2003 Manuel Rodriguez Model D 650mm ce

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitarfrom Mexico .

Postby AndreiKrylov » Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:52 pm

I purchased a couple of nice instruments from Javier Pascual Jasso, who is from Paracho, but lives in San Miguel de Allende, he took 2nd prize in all Mexico luthiers competition. He is good Luthier, I would recommend him.
But:
1. Paloscrito is the cheapest material luthiers in Mexico using - I would not recommend it. I tried many guitars done from it and dislike it. They also make guitars using mahogany, rosewoods, maple, cypress etc. some of those are good.
2. My friend luthier Javier did not ever use internet for anything - and never asked me for any money upfront. And I personally would not rely on WWW sites there without good personal contact.
I'd better speak by music...Please listen Andrei Krylov at Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music, Amazon Prime etc. Thanks!

amezcua
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitarfrom Mexico .

Postby amezcua » Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:45 am

The second half of the payment was held by Paypal but yesterday it was refunded . More news later was the message from them . To sidestep the e mails and internet contact I looked up Newspapers from Michoacan and Paracho . I thought the criminal activity had not affected that area but since 2000 there have been 62 reporters killed near there.The latest was found with his throat cut and officials are not doing anything about it. There were comments about drug crops too. That was in a 2016 paper .They describe Paracho as a small village where handicrafts are the local industry as if it had no importance . I imagined a shop where I had agreed to purchase something and next time I looked the shop was boarded up and you could only see litter through the empty window.
As to the sound of Palo Escrito I think it adds a fascinating tone quality that is very expressive. I even wondered about walnut but that has a much colder feel to the sound. Some players tell us they don`t hear any difference between wood types. Well that`s their personal viewpoint . I heard one youtube video with a Brazilian Rosewood back and every time a low note was played it would not stop . It was an attractive sound but it became very irritating because it swamped all the rest of the music. It was similar to a recording of a famous violin being played. It was the Plowden Stradivarius which has a stellar tone but the player was well out of tune most of the time. An odd combination but I still remember the wonderful violin sound .

amezcua
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Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitarfrom Mexico .

Postby amezcua » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:00 am

My mistake just now . The Plowden is a Guarneri del Gesu violin.

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bear
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Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitarfrom Mexico .

Postby bear » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:34 pm

If your current deal fall through I would take Andrei's recommendation or contact Ramon Amira (a forum member), he can hook you up with a Francisco Navarro or Marlon Navarro. Ramon is in New York and may be easier to communicate with than someone in Paracho.
2013 Jeff Medlin '37 Hauser 640mm sp
2006 Michele Della Guistina Concert 10 string 650mm ce
2005 Jose Ramirez 4E 650mm ce
2005 Manuel Rodriguez Model C3F 650mm sp
2003 Manuel Rodriguez Model D 650mm ce

Dustin McKinney
Student of the online lessons
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:00 pm
Location: Kansas City, Missouri

Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitarfrom Mexico .

Postby Dustin McKinney » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:52 pm

bear wrote:If your current deal fall through I would take Andrei's recommendation or contact Ramon Amira (a forum member), he can hook you up with a Francisco Navarro or Marlon Navarro. Ramon is in New York and may be easier to communicate with than someone in Paracho.


I ordered mine through Ramon Amira! He's very helpful, and he's a great communicator!
Kremona Fiesta FC

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AndreiKrylov
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Location: Canada, USA, Mexico, Portugal, Spain

Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitar from Mexico .

Postby AndreiKrylov » Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:04 pm

bear wrote:If your current deal fall through I would take Andrei's recommendation or contact Ramon Amira (a forum member), he can hook you up with a Francisco Navarro or Marlon Navarro. Ramon is in New York and may be easier to communicate with than someone in Paracho.

+1
My favorite guitar (of guitars I have) is mahogany back and sides made in Paracho about 70 years ago and restored and redone by luthier Paul Saunders.
Last edited by AndreiKrylov on Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'd better speak by music...Please listen Andrei Krylov at Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music, Amazon Prime etc. Thanks!

henders
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:49 am
Location: California, USA

Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitarfrom Mexico .

Postby henders » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:11 pm

amezcua wrote:The second half of the payment was held by Paypal but yesterday it was refunded . More news later was the message from them . To sidestep the e mails and internet contact I looked up Newspapers from Michoacan and Paracho . I thought the criminal activity had not affected that area but since 2000 there have been 62 reporters killed near there.The latest was found with his throat cut and officials are not doing anything about it. There were comments about drug crops too. That was in a 2016 paper .They describe Paracho as a small village where handicrafts are the local industry as if it had no importance . I imagined a shop where I had agreed to purchase something and next time I looked the shop was boarded up and you could only see litter through the empty window.
As to the sound of Palo Escrito I think it adds a fascinating tone quality that is very expressive. I even wondered about walnut but that has a much colder feel to the sound. Some players tell us they don`t hear any difference between wood types. Well that`s their personal viewpoint . I heard one youtube video with a Brazilian Rosewood back and every time a low note was played it would not stop . It was an attractive sound but it became very irritating because it swamped all the rest of the music. It was similar to a recording of a famous violin being played. It was the Plowden Stradivarius which has a stellar tone but the player was well out of tune most of the time. An odd combination but I still remember the wonderful violin sound .


Good that you are getting your money back. Wasn't sounding good. I have a cedar top Paracho guitar that I bought from a music store in Guadalajara back in 1993. I am not sure of the back and sides. Solid and a beautiful grain. Looks like rosewood. A good sounding instrument, though basses a little better than trebles.

amezcua
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitar from Mexico .

Postby amezcua » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:34 pm

Thankyou all for being so helpful . There may be an innocent explanation to this. What bothers me is if I have been scammed the maker has also been robbed or scammed as well . The maker who was supposed to be making the guitar has been very influential in Paracho . In the newspapers I don`t think I mentioned the armed gangs around there. The most recent reporter killed in Jan 2016 lived in Paracho and drove to his work at a university. A strange word was used to describe the people in Paracho ."The indiginous people in Paracho". That sounds very odd to me.So what are the other people in Mexico? If I get in touch with one of the makers mentioned above they should know each other. Many meet and chat as they wait to get the routing done on their new guitars . Cheaper than all getting a machine each . The waiting lists mentioned would not be the working time on one guitar . The idea is unfamiliar to me .Maybe I should have asked for a finished guitar .Much simpler .When you see some Mexican guitar sites the prices look horrendous as they use the $ sign for Mexican currency . You have to make a huge division to get the real price .

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bear
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Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitar from Mexico .

Postby bear » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:39 pm

amezcua wrote: A strange word was used to describe the people in Paracho ."The indiginous people in Paracho". That sounds very odd to me.So what are the other people in Mexico?


There are people of european, african or asian ancestry in mexico and people who are not. Those that are not are indiginous.
2013 Jeff Medlin '37 Hauser 640mm sp
2006 Michele Della Guistina Concert 10 string 650mm ce
2005 Jose Ramirez 4E 650mm ce
2005 Manuel Rodriguez Model C3F 650mm sp
2003 Manuel Rodriguez Model D 650mm ce

amezcua
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitar from Mexico .

Postby amezcua » Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:50 pm

That`s right but it seemed strange to put it in a local newspaper. Unless the paper was an internet version .Just an impression that seemed a little odd.

amezcua
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:50 pm

Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitar from Mexico .

Postby amezcua » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:09 pm

Wikipedia shines a welcome light on Indigenous people(s) in Mexico .I read one blog article that mentions 4 indigenous groups .Nahua on the Coast.Mazahua and Otomi in the East and Purepecha in the Lake and Plateau regions. But there are dozens of other indigenous people(s) with other names and over 80 languages still spoken(not always 100% ) apart from the dominant Spanish. The list of languages shows my favourite one near the bottom of the list ----Yaqui .What a brilliant name for a language .
The blog I mentioned had squeezed itself through the automatic translator and a popular wood used for guitars in Mexico emerged as Written Stick. Step forward for your gold star if you can guess that one .However this was written in 2010 and the grave statistic showed that every 4 lovingly hand made instruments were shoved aside by 200 "Made in China "instruments .And these were being sold in Paracho .How mad is that .What a disgrace .These were lower quality and not your Kenny Hill models . (I think so but could be wrong ).
The maker written about in the blog was Jerome Amezcua .I think the translator probably meant Jeronimo Amezcua who was hopefully ,in my case , going to make my guitar. I hope that works out in the end . Paracho guitars should be sent to England where the humidity matches theirs almost exactly . It gets so tiresome hearing Americans winging about splits when they live in places like Death Valley .What do they expect ?
One aspect of the traditional Mexican guitar making is to put the guitar together without varnish or strings , put it in a bag and let it "rest". Then they complete it after some time .Is that what upset Kenny Hill I wonder ? As they say in Devon "Us`ll do it Dreckly" (Directly ie when we are ready and not before ).
I edited the name Yaqui as I put an extra c in there . Spoken in Sonora. That sounds nice .
Last edited by amezcua on Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bear
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Re: Trying to buy a new Paracho Guitar from Mexico .

Postby bear » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:03 pm

amezcua wrote:Wikipedia shines a welcome light on Indigenous people(s) in Mexico .I read one blog article that mentions 4 indigenous groups .Nahua on the Coast.Mazahua and Otomi in the East and Purepecha in the Lake and Plateau regions. But there are dozens of other indigenous people(s) with other names and over 80 languages still spoken(not always 100% ) apart from the dominant Spanish. The list of languages shows my favourite one near the bottom of the list ----Yaqui .What a brilliant name for a language .
The blog I mentioned had squeezed itself through the automatic translator and a popular wood used for guitars in Mexico emerged as Written Stick. Step forward for your gold star if you can guess that one .However this was written in 2010 and the grave statistic showed that every 4 lovingly hand made instruments were shoved aside by 200 "Made in China "instruments .And these were being sold in Paracho .How mad is that .What a disgrace .These were lower quality and not your Kenny Hill models .
The maker written about in the blog was Jerome Amezcua .I think the translator probably meant Jeronimo Amezcua who was hopefully ,in my case , going to make my guitar. I hope that works out in the end . Paracho guitars should be sent to England where the humidity matches theirs almost exactly . It gets so tiresome hearing Americans winging about splits when they live in places like Death Valley .What do they expect ?
One aspect of the traditional Mexican guitar making is to put the guitar together without varnish or strings , put it in a bag and let it "rest". Then they complete it after some time .Is that what upset Kenny Hill I wonder ? As they say in Devon "Us`ll do it Dreckly" (Directly ie when we are ready and not before ).
I edited the name Yaqui as I put an extra c in there . Spoken in Sonora. That sounds nice .


Gabriel Ayala, is a classical guitarist and Yaqui.
2013 Jeff Medlin '37 Hauser 640mm sp
2006 Michele Della Guistina Concert 10 string 650mm ce
2005 Jose Ramirez 4E 650mm ce
2005 Manuel Rodriguez Model C3F 650mm sp
2003 Manuel Rodriguez Model D 650mm ce


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