An electron the size of our Universe!

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glassynails
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An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by glassynails » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:13 pm

I read this by another user on a physics forum and I began to wonder!

"The question I always asked myself as a kid was: "if atoms make up our bodies, what makes up atoms?". We have answers now but the question then becomes: what makes up those subatomic particles? How far down can we go? Is it forever? "

Glassynails' thoughts on this:

Could an electron be the size of our Universe compared to things even smaller than it? Or could it be even larger than that?! Maybe someday we'll be able to see that small and find out!

Who knows, maybe we're encapsulated inside a giant electron called the Universe and men are trying to use very powerful instruments to figure out the very same thing?! Our Universe could be the size of an electron compared to giant people observing our electron size Universe! Anythings possible let's remember! :shock:
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

gitgeezer
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by gitgeezer » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:20 pm

Theoretically, if you imagine entities smaller and smaller, you eventually run into the limitations imposed by the Planck length. Sizes smaller than the Planck length have no physical meaning, so there is nothing to be discovered there. I haven't done the math, but I imagine that if we equate an electron to the size of the universe, then the diameter of the earth would be smaller than the Planck length.

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guitarrista
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by guitarrista » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:43 pm

Check this out!! : http://htwins.net/scale/ (use the slide)

Planck's length is 10^-35 m. Size of universe is around 9* 10^26 m. Earth's diameter is 1.3 * 10^7 m. An electron is 10^-18 m.

So the ratio of sizes between the universe and an electron is almost 45 orders of magnitude: 9*10^44. If you shrink the universe down to an electron, you have only 17 orders of magnitude left for smaller things. The Earth is 20 orders of magnitude smaller than the universe, so the largest object in the new universe would be ten times larger than the size of the Sun.

Hopefully I did not mess up the math :lol:
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by BellyDoc » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:49 pm

Existential philosophy is a curable disease but you have to accept that it's the problem and seek help on your own. Nobody else can do it for you.

Untreated, it leads to a degenerative process that moves farther and farther into the abstract. Philosophy of language, epistemology, and finally formal logic. Before you know it you'll be strung out on Bertrand Russell and asking what "numbers" really are.

It takes decades for some to realize how far they've gone into the poppy field of philosophic triviality. (Read Wittgenstein) Many major players in these areas actually go insane and never return. (Seriously. That's a checkable fact).

Don't worry. There IS a way home and right here you're in the correct place. The cure is in the Arts and Humanities. Mankind's crowning achievement is NOT science. It's love. All expression beneath that is merely foundational support, and only the exploration of our highest function, namely the ability to truly relate to each other as sacred and respected beings gives meaning and purpose to life.
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." -Sir Isaac Newton

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gitgeezer
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by gitgeezer » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:11 am

BellyDoc wrote:Existential philosophy is a curable disease but you have to accept that it's the problem and seek help on your own. Nobody else can do it for you.

Untreated, it leads to a degenerative process that moves farther and farther into the abstract. Philosophy of language, epistemology, and finally formal logic. Before you know it you'll be strung out on Bertrand Russell and asking what "numbers" really are.

It takes decades for some to realize how far they've gone into the poppy field of philosophic triviality. (Read Wittgenstein) Many major players in these areas actually go insane and never return. (Seriously. That's a checkable fact).

Don't worry. There IS a way home and right here you're in the correct place. The cure is in the Arts and Humanities. Mankind's crowning achievement is NOT science. It's love. All expression beneath that is merely foundational support, and only the exploration of our highest function, namely the ability to truly relate to each other as sacred and respected beings gives meaning and purpose to life.
Are you sure you intended this post for this particular thread? Maybe you meant it for the other glassynails thread.

Lovemyguitar
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by Lovemyguitar » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:49 am

BellyDoc wrote:Existential philosophy is a curable disease but you have to accept that it's the problem and seek help on your own. ... The cure is in the Arts and Humanities. ....
Philosophy is in the Humanities.

Jeffrey Armbruster
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:18 am

The faculty of imagination is wonderful. It can produce all kinds of speculations that are free from everyday constraints. The Incredible Shrinking Man! What if someone were to shrink down to the size of an electron; or, what if one of our electrons served as the universe of other beings? Etc. This is fun but it's neither physics nor metaphysics. It may be logical however. But it all leads nowhere but to science fiction, which is a fine thing. The problem here is that the question is not a reasonable one. Maybe Glassy is asking about infinite regression or its opposite. Or, a related notion, the mise en abyme--two mirrors facing each other reflect an image into a never ending horizon. Or again, the point on a line is infinitely divisible (Zeno's paradox). All of these are instances of what Hegel called 'bad infinity'. You can always add another number to the number line, and that's how most people think of infinity.

But not philosophers and theologians. Most physicists haven't read them. That's why they usually have such poor speculations when they get away from their math.

Of course, guitarista has excellent math skills, far in advance of mine! But he makes his point with math.
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glassynails
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by glassynails » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:41 am

So, I had heard of the Planck length, but have not read up on it. I'm off to read wikipedia. I'm sure it's going to be a little difficult for me to grasp though. When I was thinking about "infinite regression" (things getting smaller and smaller infinitely?) I had this strange idea that you'd end up getting to a point where things couldn't get smaller and actually came out "on the other side" INFINITELY LARGE or something!

One thing is for sure this Universe and life are amazing! I'm thinking of joining the "physics forum" or that "physic stack exchange" .... although I'll likely be the dumbest person there! :lol:
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

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Denian Arcoleo
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by Denian Arcoleo » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:23 am

BellyDoc wrote:Existential philosophy is a curable disease but you have to accept that it's the problem and seek help on your own. Nobody else can do it for you.

Untreated, it leads to a degenerative process that moves farther and farther into the abstract. Philosophy of language, epistemology, and finally formal logic. Before you know it you'll be strung out on Bertrand Russell and asking what "numbers" really are.

It takes decades for some to realize how far they've gone into the poppy field of philosophic triviality. (Read Wittgenstein) Many major players in these areas actually go insane and never return. (Seriously. That's a checkable fact).

Don't worry. There IS a way home and right here you're in the correct place. The cure is in the Arts and Humanities. Mankind's crowning achievement is NOT science. It's love. All expression beneath that is merely foundational support, and only the exploration of our highest function, namely the ability to truly relate to each other as sacred and respected beings gives meaning and purpose to life.
+ infinity

Pat Dodson
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by Pat Dodson » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:43 am

Denian Arcoleo wrote:
BellyDoc wrote:Existential philosophy is a curable disease but you have to accept that it's the problem and seek help on your own. Nobody else can do it for you.

Untreated, it leads to a degenerative process that moves farther and farther into the abstract. Philosophy of language, epistemology, and finally formal logic. Before you know it you'll be strung out on Bertrand Russell and asking what "numbers" really are.

It takes decades for some to realize how far they've gone into the poppy field of philosophic triviality. (Read Wittgenstein) Many major players in these areas actually go insane and never return. (Seriously. That's a checkable fact).

Don't worry. There IS a way home and right here you're in the correct place. The cure is in the Arts and Humanities. Mankind's crowning achievement is NOT science. It's love. All expression beneath that is merely foundational support, and only the exploration of our highest function, namely the ability to truly relate to each other as sacred and respected beings gives meaning and purpose to life.
+ infinity
and beyond

Pat Dodson
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by Pat Dodson » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:09 am

The n+1th turtle in the chain blinked. What an odd vision; a silica based creature with long claws had scuttled upside-down across the belly of the turtle above.

Somewhere, thought the turtle, there must be a universe of almost infinitely small heavens containing worlds where upside-down scuttling creatures hurried to their computers to research Planck's Length. For a moment he considered asking the turtle below what he thought of the idea but decided against. Turtle n+2 was busy explaining to n+3 his theory that their universe was carried in the dark matter within the eyeball of a giant sloth upon whose back rested the multiverse quantum fruit machine that determined all possibilities. Best not disturb them.

manythumbed
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by manythumbed » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:24 am

There may only be one electron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe which is an idea that has always made me stop and ponder.

gitgeezer
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by gitgeezer » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:41 pm

An idea I can't get out of my head is that our universe is just an ice cream cone in another universe. An obese boy in the other universe is greedily licking the ice cream, and each time he licks it astronomers on earth detect a shower of cosmic rays. I'm just hoping that a thousand years in our universe is only a minute in the other universe, so that we don't have to worry about getting licked up in our lifetimes.

PeteJ
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by PeteJ » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:22 pm

Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:The faculty of imagination is wonderful. It can produce all kinds of speculations that are free from everyday constraints. The Incredible Shrinking Man! What if someone were to shrink down to the size of an electron; or, what if one of our electrons served as the universe of other beings? Etc. This is fun but it's neither physics nor metaphysics. It may be logical however. But it all leads nowhere but to science fiction, which is a fine thing. The problem here is that the question is not a reasonable one. Maybe Glassy is asking about infinite regression or its opposite. Or, a related notion, the mise en abyme--two mirrors facing each other reflect an image into a never ending horizon. Or again, the point on a line is infinitely divisible (Zeno's paradox). All of these are instances of what Hegel called 'bad infinity'. You can always add another number to the number line, and that's how most people think of infinity.

But not philosophers and theologians. Most physicists haven't read them. That's why they usually have such poor speculations when they get away from their math.
You get my vote. Hermann Weyl is my go to guy on infinity and he did the reading and the thinking.

PeteJ
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by PeteJ » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:27 pm

Wait a minute ...

I thought an electron was a point particle or an infinitely extended field such that either it is infinitely small or infinitely extended. But guitarista gives it a definite diameter. What justification do we have for awarding electrons a diameter?

I though electrons were the same size as the universe when nobody's looking.

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