An electron the size of our Universe!

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guitarrista
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by guitarrista » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:19 pm

PeteJ wrote:What justification do we have for awarding electrons a diameter?
It's a diameter in a statistical probabilistic sense.
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Andrew Fryer
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:36 pm

Someone's been watching Men in Black.
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guitarrista
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by guitarrista » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:36 pm

glassynails wrote: I had this strange idea that you'd end up getting to a point where things couldn't get smaller and actually came out "on the other side" INFINITELY LARGE or something!
Speaking of infinitely large, we humans can't imagine even really big numbers' never mind infinitely large. Seriously. The best visualization/thinking exercise I've come across about what really, really large is like, is "Wait But Why"s description and visualization of just how large Graham's number is - g64. Walking through the steps to get to how large it is, I can guarantee you will come out shaken to your core because you just got a glimpse of what really large, yet nowhere near infinitely large, numbers are like - and our brains are just not wired to fully take in the insanity of it. A Googol number (10^100) is not even a speck of dust compared to g1, which itself is not even the size of an atom in the super-universe that is g64. And g64 is nothing compared to "infinity". It will blow your mind :D

From 1,000,000 to Graham’s Number.
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Andrew Fryer
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:12 pm

Rather than all this "theroetical" speculation, here's one of the more interesting star-size comparison pictures:
Image
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martinardo
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by martinardo » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:51 pm

Those size comparisons are truly sobering. :chaud:

Perhaps we could focus on Quality rather than Quantity . . .
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:44 pm

It takes at least a day in Yosemite to really grasp how big El Capitan and all the rest really are. This is without hiking up through them either. I mean, my perception actually shifts after a while because my mind has 'allowed' their size.

So, I don't think that we can really grasp the size of the stars in the chart above from where we sit--although it really is a great chart! I might wager, however, that if we could somehow get out among these objects our minds would be capable of taking them in, eventually. And this is perhaps even more astonishing than the objects.

Good old Saturn and Jupiter and the rest are out there intercepting a lot if incoming comets and such that would hit us otherwise. So, thanks, ya big lunks!
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by glassynails » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:02 pm

the whole earth and ourselves are a mere speck of dust ..... why do we even bother? ... :(
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by Pat Dodson » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:52 pm

glassynails wrote:the whole earth and ourselves are a mere speck of dust ..... why do we even bother? ... :(
'Cos no extra-terrestrial aliens have yet offered to.

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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:06 am

glassynails wrote:the whole earth and ourselves are a mere speck of dust ..... why do we even bother? ... :(
An ant is more complex than Anteres. Look around!
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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by Lovemyguitar » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:46 am

glassynails wrote:the whole earth and ourselves are a mere speck of dust ..... why do we even bother? ... :(
Even of we were the smallest thing in the universe (which we aren't), we bother because we are not dust, we are people, with lives and hearts and minds. Open your eyes, look around you, go outside, go to a concert, talk to real people, read a great book, smell some flowers, watch a sunset, listen to some amazing music, play your guitar, get a pet. There is a whole amazing world outside your door, and if all you can see is some vast universe (that you can't actually see or even comprehend, if you've been reading what others have been saying), then you are looking in all the wrong places (or learning the wrong lessons from it...).

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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by glassynails » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:50 am

maybe there are giants larger than our Universe trying to see our Universe with the most powerful microscopes they have and they've yet to develop the technology to see us, so they don't know what's "inside" our Universe. Maybe our whole Universe is contained in something the size of a grain of sand to something larger than us. Well actually it is I would presume.
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by glassynails » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:37 am

Lovemyguitar wrote:
glassynails wrote:the whole earth and ourselves are a mere speck of dust ..... why do we even bother? ... :(
Even of we were the smallest thing in the universe (which we aren't), we bother because we are not dust, we are people, with lives and hearts and minds. Open your eyes, look around you, go outside, go to a concert, talk to real people, read a great book, smell some flowers, watch a sunset, listen to some amazing music, play your guitar, get a pet. There is a whole amazing world outside your door, and if all you can see is some vast universe (that you can't actually see or even comprehend, if you've been reading what others have been saying), then you are looking in all the wrong places (or learning the wrong lessons from it...).
I do love people and go outside and smell the roses, etc. I don't sit inside a dark room all day thinking of gloomy things, but I realize what reality is. The reality is is that someday this entire planet will be eaten up by the Sun. The Universe does not care about us and will go on fine without us, we are insignificant to it, just as bacteria is to our hands when we wash it off with soap. As George Carlin said "The Earth doesn't care about us and someday it'll shake us off like a bad case of the fleas!" We think we're more important than we really are. In the grand scheme of the Universe we're insignificant.

We lead lives of smartphones, t.v. and fancy cars and fancy advertising that try and get you to buy all the latest products that you "need", etc. They're all distractions that we buy into to keep ourselves from looking at reality. Ask a poor man living in Africa on a dirt floor with no running water what he thinks of the stock market or the latest "app" for his smartphone. It's all b.s. He's concerned with getting enough food and water to eat for the day! That's what life's really about, but we rich people don't want to think of those things, we're above all that, we need the latest Apple I phone and our Haggar slacks, and BMW's to impress our rich ahole neighbors, so they won't think that we're less "successful" then them!

The reality is that someday each of us will be gone forever. No matter all the fancy pills you take, the daily running, etc, will prolong your life forever. In the end it doesn't matter what you did with your life and we are insignificant, that is reality. It matters only for future generations, but in the end they will disappear also. I don't hold a pretty picture like all the liberals and sjw's today do, but I love all people and wish them the best. I make it a point to try and give the beggars on the street some change so that they can buy a hamburger ... or a beer if that's what floats their boats. Whatever gets you through the night, we're all the same, we're all humans just trying to be happy and do the best we can I guess.

We "bother" yes, and I bother each day also, but I think that in the end it's all in vain. All of our technology, etc will someday be wiped out by the Sun and things will go on just fine as usual in the Universe. Thinking of all the galaxies and new planets though I have hope that there's life out there somewhere just like ours or perhaps entirely different. The world and this life is amazing and I enjoy it immensely, don't get me wrong ... but in the back of my mind, as I'm sure some of you also, there's always that itching thought "why do I bother?!" , but then we do end up going on .... time to go make myself a hamburger and watch t.v.
"GLASSYNAILS" on Youtoob for my "no edit" - "no fakery" audio recordings. Just me, my Alhambra 7p spruce, and an Olympus ls-10 portable recorder.

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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by PeteJ » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:40 am

Not for nothing is one book by the Dalai Lama called 'The Universe in a Single Atom'.

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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by Lovemyguitar » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:27 pm

glassynails wrote:...I do love people and go outside and smell the roses, etc. I don't sit inside a dark room all day thinking of gloomy things, but I realize what reality is. The reality is is that someday this entire planet will be eaten up by the Sun. The Universe does not care about us and will go on fine without us, we are insignificant to it...We think we're more important than we really are. In the grand scheme of the Universe we're insignificant.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I, too, am very much aware of reality and I have spent countless hours contemplating many of the things you've discussed here and there, and I think I know what is truly important in life (I don't even own a cell-phone, let alone a smart-phone), but I do not share all of your perspectives on these matters. You are not the only person to think about these things, but the conclusions that you have drawn are not the conclusions that everybody draws.

One thing about which we disagree is that you are personifying the "universe", talking about it as if it has thoughts, feelings, interests, "schemes", etc.. But "it" does not have the capacity to care, it's just space and matter and energy, raw materials, etc.. "We" are the ones who care, we are the ones who assign "significance" to things. So what if our lives are short compared to the vastness of time? That is not a relevant consideration for me. I have never thought that human beings were insignificant in the universe, I have never asked myself "Why do I bother?" with regards to life as a whole (although I often ask myself that when I write posts on this forum!).

That you feel the way you do about these things is obviously the way you are, and I am not saying that it is right or wrong -- one's feelings are one's feelings. But my feelings are as valid as yours. I know that there are people who share your views that ultimately, life is meaningless, but I actually find it offensive when people say that (although I realise that that is probably not your intention). I go out of my way to make life matter, I put a lot of effort into giving life meaning, I seek out significance in the actions and creativity of my fellow human beings, and then you come along and say, "Why bother? We're just specks of dust and are all going to be dead in a few years anyway."

Who are you to say that, who are you to decide for me what matters, what's significant? For you to say those things implies that you are some sort of authority on the meaning of life, the universe, and everything, and that you have declared that it is ultimately pointless, and that those of us who disagree with you are somehow delusional and wrong. If that isn't overestimating one's importance and significance, I don't know what is.

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Re: An electron the size of our Universe!

Post by PeteJ » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:36 am

Yes, it is odd to ask a lot of questions about the universe and then change tack and start proposing it is pointless, that we are merely mortal beings with no meaning or purpose etc. Best to withhold judgement and all the conjecture until the questions are answered.
Last edited by PeteJ on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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