On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

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Tubbers
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Tubbers » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:26 am

Lawler wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:09 pm
Tubbers wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:07 am
Weighed in today at 201. (Chomping at the bit to hit the 190's) :)
I'm rooting for you.
Thanks, Lawler. I'll find out this Friday.
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Tubbers
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Tubbers » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:48 pm

Oh, so close. Weigh in today at 200.2
I'm also back into my 36 inch waist pants. :)
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Andrew Fryer
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:49 am

Haven't contributed much for a while.
In the last 3 or 4 weeks I've "given up" sweet things, chocolate, sweets, biscuits, cakes, except for the sugar in my daily coffee each morning.
A month ago I found that I'd eat crumpets and jam for lunch, but then by the time I had power-walked 2 1/2 miles to Sainsbury's, I was trembling all over and needed to eat a couple of tubes of wine-gums in one go like someone suffocating gasping for oxygen. I'd eaten lots of sweet things all my life, but I think maybe my pancreas was no longer coping. Now that I've had "no" sugar for 4 weeks, my blood-sugar feels fine - I walk to Sainsbury's on an empty stomach and feel no ill effects. True I have a coffee and a pastry at Starbucks, but only if there is no queue - three people ahead of me and it takes them 15 minutes to get served, so screw that.

=============================================================================

After a month I do seem to have lost half a stone.
So we can wonder about the metabolism of short-term energy transfer compared with that of long-term. A possible conclusion I could draw is that a diet will be useless until you've eliminated the short-term transactions between sugars and glycogens? Once those have been eliminated, the long-term slower transaction can take place of metabolising body fat into energy?

Eliminating all carbs takes this one step too far and is unnecessary as long as one watches the basic calories?
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Tubbers
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Tubbers » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:39 pm

Weighed in today at 201, but it's been a week of one birthday party and 2 restaurant visits.

"Eliminating all carbs takes this one step too far and is unnecessary as long as one watches the basic calories?"

I haven't eliminated all carbs.
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guitarrista
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by guitarrista » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:44 pm

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:49 am
A possible conclusion I could draw is that a diet will be useless until you've eliminated the short-term transactions between sugars and glycogens? Once those have been eliminated, the long-term slower transaction can take place of metabolising body fat into energy?
I don't think it works like that (also glycogen is just the stored form of ingested carbs). The first order effect is from lower calorie intake - by taking a lot of carbs out of your daily diet you've probably lowered your daily calorie intake into a slight deficit, hence the weight loss. The second order effect is from changing the daily carbs-fat-protein intake distribution. So certainly having both effects work together delivers results. But there is no long-term vs. short-term transaction concept attached to type of macronutrient (carbs; fats protein). Moreover, the whole system is a continuous dynamic process where both burning and storing occurs simultaneously. When you eliminate a lot of carb intake, you lower their availability in the blood and eventually the availability of stored carbs (glycogen), so the dynamic process shifts a bit to mobilizing and burning more bodyfat than otherwise for energy - especially if you do not ingest a lot of fat in terms of food intake.
Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:49 am
Eliminating all carbs takes this one step too far and is unnecessary as long as one watches the basic calories?
Right. But just to be clear, carbs here means all carbohydrate, not just simple or added sugar. Almost every food except cheeses and meat have carbs, some lots of it (fruits and of course manufactured sweets), but even most vegetables, yoghurt, eggs, etc have some. So eliminating all carbs by that definition of carbs is indeed unnecessary - and is very hard to do anyway. However, eliminating all carbs meaning simple sugars is not a bad idea for calorie intake and macronutrient-shifting reasons.
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Andrew Fryer
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Andrew Fryer » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:00 am

Thanks, g.
When I say sugars, I mean refined ones and HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup), whereas by carbs I mean complex ones, but I am certainly bio-chem ignorant.
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Tubbers » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:37 pm

My niece is doing the same as me and has also dropped 30 pounds.
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Andrew Pohlman » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:26 pm

When Vanna White was asked what her weight management secret was, she stated, "Don't eat." Quite true, but not the best approach. I want to humbly contribute some nutritional science, albeit rather simplified.

First off, nobody really wants to lose "weight". People really want to lose fat. Limiting total calories, particularly carbs, is essential to triggering the burning of fat. The body prefers to burn carbs (glucose), then protein, then fats, in that order. The carbs come from two sources: the digestive system, and conversion of stored glycogen to glucose. So the game is to set up physiological conditions so your body burns fat despite its normal propensity.

Guitarrista is correct that burning and storing happen simultaneously. One key is carbohydrate deprivation. With no glucose coming in from the digestive system, you will start to convert your glycogen stores. Along with converting glycogen, you start to burn fats. With your glycogen mostly burned up, calories coming in favor glycogen storage so you are far less likely to deposit them as fat. Athletes call this "recovery". But with total caloric restriction on top of reduced carbs, your body will want to burn protein. Exercise is then needed to send signals to your tissues to retain protein for tissue rebuilding. So the complete answer is to limit total calories, particularly carbs, and exercise. As soon as you eat "recovery calories", you stop burning fat and start that simultaneous burning and storage mode again from the (now) available carbs. That's the next key: don't eat recovery calories unless you are an athlete and you actually need them. To lose fat, you are quite literally starving yourself, but hopefully in a safe and controlled way.

Another common misconception is that you can exercise away excess calories. Not really, no. Not for people with desk jobs like me! For example, the professional cyclists in the Tour de France burn approximately 5000 Kcals per day. They eat like crazy during such events and never gain an ounce due to many hours of high intensity physical output. But normal people? We burn less than 2000 Kcals/day. To burn just one 300 Kcal doughnut takes an hour of moderate cycling. So fine - eat that doughnut, and compensate by an hour of cycling. But then what? If you want to have a net loss of fat, you have to manage calories as outlined above.

There are whole books written on this stuff. It's very hard to give a concise synopsis here. It gets very complicated and to my chagrin, most healthcare professionals in the US don't know even basic nutrition, so they are of no help for people in need of weight management.
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Tubbers » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:22 pm

Andrew Pohlman wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:26 pm
It gets very complicated and to my chagrin, most healthcare professionals in the US don't know even basic nutrition, so they are of no help for people in need of weight management.
This is true. All my doctors have ever said was that I needed to lose weight, but they never said how except for the usual starvation diet.

Weighed in today at 197.4
Hallelujah! :D
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Lawler
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Lawler » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:56 am

Tubbers wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:22 pm

Weighed in today at 197.4
Hallelujah! :D
Congratulations!

Tubbers
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Tubbers » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:52 am

Lawler wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:56 am
Tubbers wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:22 pm

Weighed in today at 197.4
Hallelujah! :D
Congratulations!
Thank you, Lawler. It was a great feeling to see that. :)
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guitarrista
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by guitarrista » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:31 pm

Tubbers wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:22 pm
Andrew Pohlman wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:26 pm
It gets very complicated and to my chagrin, most healthcare professionals in the US don't know even basic nutrition, so they are of no help for people in need of weight management.
This is true. All my doctors have ever said was that I needed to lose weight, but they never said how except for the usual starvation diet.

Weighed in today at 197.4
Hallelujah! :D
Congrats!! :bravo:
Konstantin
--
1982 Anselmo Solar Gonzalez

Tubbers
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Tubbers » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:37 pm

guitarrista wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:31 pm
Tubbers wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:22 pm
Andrew Pohlman wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:26 pm
It gets very complicated and to my chagrin, most healthcare professionals in the US don't know even basic nutrition, so they are of no help for people in need of weight management.
This is true. All my doctors have ever said was that I needed to lose weight, but they never said how except for the usual starvation diet.

Weighed in today at 197.4
Hallelujah! :D
Congrats!! :bravo:
Thank you. :)
Help!

Rasputin
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Rasputin » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:15 pm

Andrew Pohlman wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:26 pm
Another common misconception is that you can exercise away excess calories. Not really, no. Not for people with desk jobs like me! For example, the professional cyclists in the Tour de France burn approximately 5000 Kcals per day. They eat like crazy during such events and never gain an ounce due to many hours of high intensity physical output. But normal people? We burn less than 2000 Kcals/day. To burn just one 300 Kcal doughnut takes an hour of moderate cycling. So fine - eat that doughnut, and compensate by an hour of cycling. But then what? If you want to have a net loss of fat, you have to manage calories as outlined above.
I'm sure you don't mean to put people off exercise here. Of course you can't compare somebody with a desk job to an elite athlete, but you don't need to. If you are in shape and weigh say 80 kg (180 lbs) you can easily burn 800 calories in a 1.5 hour workout. It is only the equivalent of running 10k in 1.5 hours, which is a slow jog. Anyone can get in that kind of shape. The bike is a terrible choice if you want to burn calories, and running is not much better - you will get through a lot more if you opt for the cross trainer or rower.

If you do any meaningful exercise your body will need to recover and regenerate, and that process takes energy and therefore burns calories. On the other hand, you may eat more after working out or feel you've earned a treat. Sweet and fatty foods are so high in calories that you can always wipe out the benefits, but you can definitely make a huge change in your body shape by exercising.
First off, nobody really wants to lose "weight". People really want to lose fat. Limiting total calories, particularly carbs, is essential to triggering the burning of fat. The body prefers to burn carbs (glucose), then protein, then fats, in that order. The carbs come from two sources: the digestive system, and conversion of stored glycogen to glucose. So the game is to set up physiological conditions so your body burns fat despite its normal propensity.
I don't believe it matters what order the body burns calories in, only whether it burns fat at some point. If you have more calories going out than coming in, it has to burn fat at some point. It doesn't matter when.

You will see fat burning modes on CV machines in the gym - these encourage overweight people to choose low intensity exercise in the belief that it will help them lose weight. It doesn't. It is true that the energy you use *while exercising* will come more from fat and less from carbs if it is low intensity exercise, but that doesn't matter. You will burn more fat overall if you burn more calories overall, which means you should not be keeping the exercise intensity artificially low. It seems to me that these fat burning modes are just a case of marketing people preying on the overweight.
There are whole books written on this stuff. It's very hard to give a concise synopsis here. It gets very complicated and to my chagrin, most healthcare professionals in the US don't know even basic nutrition, so they are of no help for people in need of weight management.
Well, I am not sure how much difference it really makes. If someone is overweight it's usually because they eat for reasons that have nothing to do with being hungry - out of boredom, say, or as a way of cheering themselves up. Time and time again people make huge efforts to lose weight only to rebound. I think this is because their basic attitude to food does not change, and no amount of nutritional information is going to help there. On the other hand, when people who had been put off exercise for whatever reason rediscover what a pleasure it is, it can become an integral part of their lifestyle. I think that's the way to sustainable weight loss.

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Evocacion
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Re: On a diet, my hunger is diminishing after a few weeks

Post by Evocacion » Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:32 pm

Rasputin wrote:
Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:15 pm
...
I don't believe it matters what order the body burns calories in, only whether it burns fat at some point. If you have more calories going out than coming in, it has to burn fat at some point. It doesn't matter when.
...
:bravo:
Simple maths!

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