Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Talk about things that are not necessarily related to music or the guitar.
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AndreiKrylov
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Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Post by AndreiKrylov » Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:57 pm

Perfectionism can be deadly?
isn't it applicable to classical guitarists? :)
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/second-op ... -1.4183888
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lucy
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Re: Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Post by lucy » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:50 pm

Agree.

It is possible to be a perfectionist, to a fault. Not only can it undermine confidence, it's possible to miss the details that are genuinely important, in the quest to find all of them!

In relation to guitar, it seems that playing technically "perfectly", causes some musicians to miss the significance of actually communicating something to an audience. Or perhaps, they think they do communicate? Going by the adoration of Mr. Bream on these boards, I'm not sure they're right about that.
“Do what you can, with what you have, where you are”. Theodore Roosevelt

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BugDog
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Re: Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Post by BugDog » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:42 pm

I don't think I'm in any danger.
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Michael Lazar
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Re: Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Post by Michael Lazar » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:38 pm

There is an ancient eastern artistic philosophy that I found very helpful as a luthier who has strives to achieve perfection but never completely succeeds. It is called " Wabi Sabi" Apparently the concept is difficult to translate but it goes something like: "Wabi-Sabi nurtures all that is authentic by acknowledging three simple realities: nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect." Buddhist author Taro Gold describes Wabi-Sabi as "the wisdom and beauty of imperfection."

When I read this several years ago. I began to get a lot more joy and satisfaction from my work.

PeteJ
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Re: Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Post by PeteJ » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:49 am

Nice point Michael. Buddhism is full of good ideas for retaining ones sanity. I struggle with this problem of seeking perfection and and it means going round and round until one pulls one hair out. Lucy has it right - "Not only can it undermine confidence, it's possible to miss the details that are genuinely important in the quest to find all of them!"

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Re: Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Post by brooks » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:00 pm

Michael Lazar wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:38 pm
There is an ancient eastern artistic philosophy that I found very helpful as a luthier who has strives to achieve perfection but never completely succeeds. It is called " Wabi Sabi" Apparently the concept is difficult to translate but it goes something like: "Wabi-Sabi nurtures all that is authentic by acknowledging three simple realities: nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect." Buddhist author Taro Gold describes Wabi-Sabi as "the wisdom and beauty of imperfection."

When I read this several years ago. I began to get a lot more joy and satisfaction from my work.
Or as Leonard Cohen sang: "There is a crack, a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in"

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lucy
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Re: Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Post by lucy » Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:50 pm

brooks wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:00 pm
Or as Leonard Cohen sang: "There is a crack, a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in"
And there's a variation on that: "Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light".
“Do what you can, with what you have, where you are”. Theodore Roosevelt

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Andrew Fryer
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Re: Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Post by Andrew Fryer » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:40 am

I've ignored every thread about "perfectionism" I've seen over the last 5 years. This is because it's subjective (while pretending to be objective?) and frankly a bit silly. Attention to detail is perhaps a better way of expressing it. But the way to do it isn't to take a piece at the limit of your ability and strive for "perfection" (clue: diminishing returns): it's to take a piece that's two grades easier than your current level of ability and examine it - i.e. your technique and musical interpretation when playing it - for detail that you missed when it was at the limit of your ability. Keep repeating this process. When you play something at the very limit of your ability, it's to stretch yourself, and perfection is a wild goose chase. And if you play such a piece to an audience, you are torturing the audience.
1975 Calatayud y Gisbert, Yamaha CG131S.

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AndreiKrylov
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Re: Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Post by AndreiKrylov » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:46 pm

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:40 am
I've ignored every thread about "perfectionism" I've seen over the last 5 years. This is because it's subjective (while pretending to be objective?) and frankly a bit silly. Attention to detail is perhaps a better way of expressing it. But the way to do it isn't to take a piece at the limit of your ability and strive for "perfection" (clue: diminishing returns): it's to take a piece that's two grades easier than your current level of ability and examine it - i.e. your technique and musical interpretation when playing it - for detail that you missed when it was at the limit of your ability. Keep repeating this process. When you play something at the very limit of your ability, it's to stretch yourself, and perfection is a wild goose chase. And if you play such a piece to an audience, you are torturing the audience.
Yes, but what if perfectionism could be invisible for someone who have it...?
I'd better speak by music...Please listen it on Spotify, Apple Music, Deezer, etc. Thanks!

montana
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Re: Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Post by montana » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:26 am

lucy wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:50 pm
brooks wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:00 pm
Or as Leonard Cohen sang: "There is a crack, a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in"
And there's a variation on that: "Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light".
Interesting version lucy. Checked it out. Author unknown. So similar yet so different.

PeteJ
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Re: Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Post by PeteJ » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:34 am

montana wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:26 am
lucy wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:50 pm
brooks wrote:
Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:00 pm
Or as Leonard Cohen sang: "There is a crack, a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in"
And there's a variation on that: "Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light".
Interesting version lucy. Checked it out. Author unknown. So similar yet so different.
A song of my son's from an album of ten years ago has the lyric 'Blessed are the cracked for they let in light'. Not sure if he claims ownership of this variation.

Rognvald
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Re: Perfectionism can be deadly...according to Canadian PhD

Post by Rognvald » Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:30 am

Andrei,
A Phd candidate writes a thesis on perfectionism. Her idol is Alice Cooper. Need one say more? However, the greatest accomplishments in Science and Art in the last 2,000 years have been created by people who have pushed the boundaries of human knowledge and experience. In order to do so, they have dedicated their lives to building a better mousetrap or expanding Man's understanding and interpreting the world around them through writing, music and the visual arts. If one does not strive for perfection, how then are great works of art created? The problem with the fields of Psychology/Sociology is that they are not "hard science" and are open to much conjecture, interpretation and contemporary trends/beliefs. How could any serious artist develop their style, technique, and message without a quest for perfection? The fact that perfection is unattainable is certainly part of the quest. Playing again . . . Rognvald
"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spake Zarathustra

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