Been vegan for three months now

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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Dofpic » Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:57 pm

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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Jack Douglas » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:38 pm

Hi Riff,
If you have any suggested reading/meal plans please share.
I had an amazing vegan meal at a Washington restaurant and thought, 'This is great. I should do this!'
But didn't!
Glad to hear about your success.
Jack
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Tomzooki
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Tomzooki » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:05 am

MessyTendon wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:49 pm
The idea that converting to a vegan diet is going to stop the ravages of industrialized agriculture is a rather crude pretense. One can't simply start drinking soy milk and make the world a magical place...or eat palm shortened fats, that's hardly sustainable.

Ideally we'd stop wasting so much food. The supply and demand economy makes food entirely too cheap and too wasteful.

Stopping consumption of meat and getting people to eat grubs and other insects for protein...maybe the way forward.

Want to change your diet for the sustainable? Be a freegan, eat garbage, because people throw away good food.

I think the bottom line is people are too ignorant and proud to skin an animal themselves. But going to the store dignifies the purchase. Going to buy vegan products...not exactly sustainable.

Go into nature, shoot an animal, fill your freezer...one lead bullet, a couple hours labor...99 cents for 200LBS of meat...hmm...pretty darn good to me.

Man has essentially taken the country lifestyle and made in a yuppy thing, everything local and crafted etc...We forget that the good life was the way of a commoner.

My grandma lived to her 90's...she ate butter and fats, I don't think she got her longevity from being on a farm, she was so poor that she would surround her house with straw and manure for heating...now you tell me if that is more sustainable than going vegan and turning on your coal fired heater...and she churned the butter and drank the milk.

We can't take the ideological high road that vegan or non vegan life is more sustainable and moral, until we allow ourselves to entirely deflate egos. Our planet is facing a big problem. All of the blame must go around accordingly.

It's easy...no cars, no computers, no petrol living...not today, not tomorrow. The ice sheet is melting and the methane is going to turn earth into a nightmare within the next two decades.
Hey, you seem to think exactly like me. I rarely participate to vegan vs carnivore discussion (except when somebody is convinced that vegan diet is healthier and try to convert everyone) but when I do I share exactly that kind of opinion. Then everybody is surprised to see me so cinical lol! That's what I think, it is not a solution, we are indeed running into catastrophe, and of course if I had to kill my beef I would become vegetarian - never vegan, it is far too much for me.
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Tomzooki » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:27 am

I am a pharmacist, and I have seen a couple of case of vegan with severe iron or B12 deficiency. I remember one woman with a light grey complexion and dark circles under her eyes, with a Palafer (iron capsules) prescription and a proud vegan attitude. She was reluctant to take medication, and she looked at the capsules very suspiciously, and asked if there were animal products in it. I said no. I said the thruth, there was absolutely no animal byproducts "in" the capsules..... but hey! The capsules themselves are made of gelatin! If she did not already know it (surprising for a proud vegan) she may ignore that long enough to get the iron she needed.

Of course all vegan are not like that, and most are healthy. It is just when it comes to extremes that it becomes annoying, as are all ill-informed strong beliefs about many other subjects that have the potential to harm the believer. I am talking here about things I see at the pharmacy (like "I saw yesterday a very prominent doctor that said that it is proved that statins can cause Alzheimer"... "anti-cancer drugs do not cure cancer at all"... "ADHD, anxiety and depression are not real health issues, they are just a pharmaceutical and medical conspiracy to sell more drugs"...)
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:38 am

Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:17 pm
Whatever catastrophe or dynamic equilibrium this will eventually lead to will be a mathematical not a moral phenomenon.
Wow that's cynical. Or, 'clear eyed scientific realism'.
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Tomzooki » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:58 am

Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:38 am
Andrew Fryer wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:17 pm
Whatever catastrophe or dynamic equilibrium this will eventually lead to will be a mathematical not a moral phenomenon.
Wow that's cynical. Or, 'clear eyed scientific realism'.
Exactly :-)
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:24 am

Tomzooki wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:58 am
Exactly :-)
This is interesting. I'm not at all sure if Tomzooki and I agree or not! I just heard about 'Poe's law', which states that it's impossible to tell if someone is being ironic on-line.

I was equating clear eyed scientific realism with cynicism--in the bad sense--in this instance. Ironically.
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Tomzooki
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Tomzooki » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:13 am

Jeffrey Armbruster wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:24 am
Exactly :-)


This is interesting. I'm not at all sure if Tomzooki and I agree or not! I just heard about 'Poe's law', which states that it's impossible to tell if someone is being ironic on-line.

I was equating clear eyed scientific realism with cynicism--in the bad sense--in this instance. Ironically.
I am not sure either lol! I was not ironic though, I was just simply agreeing. I am very aware of my cynicism, and I think that I am a realistic person. But I will not argue on those subjects because honestly I prefer more optimist points of view, it is less depressive. Ok, I think I sound more and more ambiguous and bizarre (and I don't master english well), I think I will go play my guitar :chitarrista:
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Jeffrey Armbruster » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:43 am

Cher Tomzooki, I unnecessarily clouded the waters with my previous post, sorry. I agree with you. Your English is great, far better than my French. I'll go play as well!
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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by MessyTendon » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:21 am

I could never eat a boring diet like that...I mean I like salads and veggies, I love them, I'll eat two pound salad of summer veggie goodness. But I'll be damned if I don't eat pork.

Wild pigs are the best, sustainable...if we don't kill those punks, there will be no native plants left.

You take the soy, my grass fed cows, will fertilize those soy fields. I'll take the steak. I guess I'm gonna get big fat tumor. Everybody happy now :)

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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by riffmeister » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:51 pm

Tomzooki wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:27 am
I am a pharmacist, and I have seen a couple of case of vegan with severe iron or B12 deficiency.
Plants and animals (including humans) cannot make their own vitamin B12. It comes from bacteria and accumulates in the tissues of animals we eat. So yes, you are right in saying that non-meat eaters should pay attention to that. I take a daily multivitamin. And many foods are fortified with B12. A percentage of the population has problems absorbing B12 as they age, so even older meat eaters can have a deficiency in B12. Lots of plant based iron sources for non-meat eaters, so that's not as much of a concern, in general.

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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by riffmeister » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:09 pm

Jack Douglas wrote:
Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:38 pm
Hi Riff,
If you have any suggested reading/meal plans please share.
I had an amazing vegan meal at a Washington restaurant and thought, 'This is great. I should do this!'
But didn't!
Glad to hear about your success.
Jack
Hi Jack,

I had an easy port of entry to the vegan diet.......my partner has shown me the way, she's been vegetarian for 20+ years and vegan for 2+ years. Search on 'vegan diet primer' and you will get some good reading. For me it's been a very easy switch, there are so many easy and tasty recipes using some combination of grains, beans, seeds, nuts, and vegetables. And there are many bean based high protein pastas, etc. And of course we are in high season for fresh ingredients for salads which I like to fortify with mixed nuts and a fruit like sliced apples, red grapes, or raisins.

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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by APK » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:43 pm

Hi everyone,

I’ve read this thread with great interest. For those interested in learning how to become vegan, it would be worth looking at Caldwell Esselstyn’s Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease and John McDougall’s The Starch Solution. The two books together contain helpful recipes and provide enormous background in regard to both the health benefits of veganism and the history of misinformation attached to and generated by the beef and dairy industries (regarding sources of protein and other nutrients). Esselstyn also has a follow-up book, The Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease Cookbook. The recipes in the three books were truly critical in helping my wife and me make the full change to veganism: it helps when what you eat on a vegan diet is actually tasty. On that note, it’s important to distinguish between store-bought vegan products loaded with unhealthy additives and a vegan diet that is whole food and plant based. It is the latter with which the two books provide enormous help. For myself, I was quickly headed towards statin territory. Within a few months of following Esselstyn’s recommendations, my lipid levels became stellar. It is also important to keep in mind that, after spending time on a true vegan, whole food, plant based diet, one begins to taste food differently: one becomes more sensitive to herbs, spices, flavors in general. What was good to begin with gets better.

I realize, as a prior poster pointed out, that there are people who eat red meat and fats their whole lives and live into their nineties, my grandfather on my mother’s side and my grandmother on my father’s side among them. But their spouses did not.

In regard to the moral aspects of veganism, Jonathan Saffron Foer’s biographical Eating Animals is, to say the least, bracing in its accounts of how the beef and dairy industries work and, like McDougall, of the history of misinformation attached to and generated by the two industries. Foer is also non-judgmental in his account of his own transition to veganism.

All best,
A

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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by riffmeister » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:09 pm

One more thing.....so far the vegan diet has not had any discernible negative impact on my nails! :chaud: :lol: 8)

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Re: Been vegan for three months now

Post by Stephen Kenyon » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:09 pm

riffmeister wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:09 pm
One more thing.....so far the vegan diet has not had any discernible negative impact on my nails! :chaud: :lol: 8)
Back in 1991 when I was early on in my diet, and in fact much closer to being an actual vegan than now, I was talking to a medical doctor, socially, and mentioned my diet, and he got very agitated and started going on about pernicious anaemia and such like. Then he took one look at my nails and calmed down :lol:
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